[MickyB]

Wow, I'd missed that post too. An impressive number of upvotes!

Thanks all. I guess the only question left is what 1H:2C, 2H:2N, 3S shows if 2H denied four spades - 3622 perhaps?

[kenrexford]

FWIW, if I could have the advantage of discussing this, I would prefer to have 3S be a splinter in support of the now-confirmed real clubs. Hence something like 1633. But without discussion it sounds like a notrump probe with a diamond hole.

[dave_w]

 MickyB, on 2012-April-11, 06:31, said:

Wow, I'd missed that post too. An impressive number of upvotes!

Thanks all. I guess the only question left is what 1H:2C, 2H:2N, 3S shows if 2H denied four spades - 3622 perhaps?

Depending on what your 2♥ rebid shows (eg what do you bid over 2♦ with a 3514 minimum). I play that 3♠ shows 6♥ but a suit not good enough for a 3♥ bid. That way you get the extra strength across and the shape.

[dave_w]

 mgoetze, on 2012-April-10, 07:43, said:

Presumably because you haven't read Justin's previous post on this topic.

Thanks for this! That's an excellent explanation of his position and it makes a lot of sense. Now I'm not sure what's best. I'm still not sure that 4351 opposite 45xx always plays better in spades, but the bidding out shape at such a low level makes a lot of sense. Pffft points who cares you've shown an opening hand (or if you are jlall something close to an opening hand).

Definitely food for thought and required reading. I'm sending it to my partner!

[akhare]

I may have posted this before, but pard and I play symmetric relay responses over 2♣ (GF).

Granted, you have to compress the rare 5440 shapes into 5431, but it doesn't really matter:

...2D: Various
...........2S: Short legged with M + ♣
...........2N: LL with ♣
...........3C: 5332
...........3D: LL with ♦
...2H: 4OM
..........2N:LL
..........3C+: High short, etc
...2S: Short legged with M + ♦
..........3C+: High short, etc.
...2N: 6+M, no shortness, etc.

[jmc]

Playing more or less natural after a precision 1M-2C how do you handle the following assuming that the club bidder always clarifies balanced by bidding 2NT at next opportunity. Does my suggestion below suffice?

The auction goes 1S-2C-2H-2NT-3NT-

xx, AKQx, Kxx, Jxxx Bids 4H.

KJ, AKQx, Kxx, Qxxx Bids an artificial 4C showing slam interest in H?

Kxx, Ax, Kxxx, Axxx Bids 4S.

Kxx, AKx, Kxx, AJx Bids an artificial 4D showing slam interest in S?

[bluecalm]

Quote

Do you respond 2C to 1H when holding four spades?

Only if I have a way to show 5H-4S hand without extras.
1H - 2C
2H as 4s-5H and 2S as normal 2H rebid is better way than natural probably (and this is what Lauria-Versace play)

Quote

If so, do you play 1H:2C, 2S doesn't show extras?

As above, if you don't switch it you may run into trouble in some sequences.

Quote

If so, what do you rebid on 4S6H?

again, 2H = 4S-5+h then 2S is relay setting hearts and 2N is relay without 3H. (the same way as in 1S-2m-2H).

Quote

If always 2S, what does 1H:2C, 2H:2S show? Natural unbalanced but can be three cards?

You can live without it; another argument for swtiching 2H and 2S rebids

Quote

Does (53)14 still bid 1M:2C, 3D splinter?

No. It bids 2S if up to 14hcp and 3C if 15+

Quote

How do you continue after 1M:2C, 3C - eg could 3D now be 2-4-4-3 with weak hearts?

3C should be extras 5-4 and 3D should be relay for shortness now

Quote

Does 1M:2D, 3D still show four cards?

Yes

Quote

Does 1H:2D, 2S show extras?

You (and top Italians) can play it the same way as 1H - 2C, so 2H is 4S-5H and 2S is normal 2H rebid.

Quote

Anything else I've missed?

a)
1M-2C as GF is way better than 1M-2C almost GF.
Invites are not that frequent, are reasonably handled by bidding (semi)forcing 1NT but not being able to rebid 3C on many hands with 6clubs really hurts.
Another approach is to put invites in jumps to 3m. Whatever you do, don't put them in 2/1.
b)
1M - 2C
2M (or 2S after 1H opening if you play the switch I described) should be wide ranging. Hands with 6M should bid that regardless of strength. Jumping to 3M just to show extras sucks because you may still belong in clubs or 3N and there is no way to find out or even cuebid comfortably, it's better to play it as 7carder or something. You have enough space to describe your range after 2N from partner which will be his most common bid (the simplest is playing 3OM as 6card with 15+hcp and 3M as 11-14).

What I wrote is Italian/Polish way to play. I think it's better than American way of raising to 3m with various junk. At least that is what I saw from some American pairs, I think the agreement will die soon anyway.