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Instructive hand

#21 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2012-March-25, 13:38

 MrAce, on 2012-March-25, 13:34, said:

- You go down while there is a legit play, if you cash only 1 round , when RHO has 4 of them instead of LHO.

Wait, really? Are you going to play RHO for 11 or 12 pointed suit cards?
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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#22 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-March-25, 13:47

 HighLow21, on 2012-March-25, 13:38, said:

Wait, really? Are you going to play RHO for 11 or 12 pointed suit cards?


He made a heavy preempt in , and his pd didnt follow 2nd , what do you think RHO has unless his pd revoked ? And what other chances do you have in order to make your contract except than endplaying RHO ?

If preemptor has 4, there is no way you can get rid of loser, but you can get rid of loser.

Unless of course you show me where cashing 2nd loses, i don't even understand why some of you insisted on cashing only 1. Am i missing something ?
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#23 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2012-March-25, 13:48

 MrAce, on 2012-March-25, 11:29, said:

Yes, Kayin said there is a % 100 line after seeing 4-1 , i am still trying to find one but i cant. I assume he meant "if LHO has 4"


Yeah sorry I meant when LHO had 4, obviously RHO can have 4, though if he does, you're still in decent shape, especially if RHO followed to a trump since odds are they have only 1 club. Now you can play your second spade first, guarding against a 7-2 break with fluffy's QJ or Q10 tight, and still come home when LHO has to win the 2nd club and can only return the suit.

I'm not sure I have a line to make the contract when the preemptor has K10xxxxx, -, J1098, Kx
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#24 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2012-March-25, 14:10

 kayin801, on 2012-March-25, 13:48, said:

Yeah sorry I meant when LHO had 4, obviously RHO can have 4, though if he does, you're still in decent shape, especially if RHO followed to a trump since odds are they have only 1 club. Now you can play your second spade first, guarding against a 7-2 break with fluffy's QJ or Q10 tight, and still come home when LHO has to win the 2nd club and can only return the suit.

I'm not sure I have a line to make the contract when the preemptor has K10xxxxx, -, J1098, Kx


When preemptor has 4, it doesnt matter which way you play, as long as he has only 1.

I would play A and , if LHO takes this he can cash a and plays ruff n sluff. If RHO takes this he can exit with but i give it right back to him with 4th and plays ruff and sluff. No way to make as you said when preemptor has 4+2 regardless of what he has in
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#25 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2012-March-25, 15:12

 MrAce, on 2012-March-25, 13:47, said:

He made a heavy preempt in , and his pd didnt follow 2nd , what do you think RHO has unless his pd revoked ? And what other chances do you have in order to make your contract except than endplaying RHO ?

If preemptor has 4, there is no way you can get rid of loser, but you can get rid of loser.

Unless of course you show me where cashing 2nd loses, i don't even understand why some of you insisted on cashing only 1. Am i missing something ?

OK we're saying the same thing actually. (Well, almost.) Only cashing 1 diamond allows for the possibility of a misdefense in addition to legitimate plays. In my mind, a misdefense is far more likely than 4-1 in the minors AND specifically KJT with RHO.

That said, some precise definition of "heavy preempt" is in order. I assume it means 3 or 4, and 7 vs. 8 spades with RHO makes a huge difference.

Also, double dummy, there is a way to make 5 with the hand I described above while combining other chances. It is to cash one high diamond, exit with a SPADE, win the diamond, cash A, and exit with 4th diamond.
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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#26 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2012-March-25, 15:17

 Free, on 2012-March-24, 12:50, said:

Actually, that's irrelevant.

How is it ever irrelevant to know how many trumps a defender started with when attempting to count a hand and deciding among elimination and throw-in plays?
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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#27 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2012-March-28, 13:47

 HighLow21, on 2012-March-25, 15:17, said:

How is it ever irrelevant to know how many trumps a defender started with when attempting to count a hand and deciding among elimination and throw-in plays?

Because you need to endplay RHO in when he's out of s. If split 3-2 it doesn't matter, if they split 4-1 or 5-0 you need LHO to have the long s. You can count as much as you want, but that won't change a thing. ;)
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#28 User is offline   HighLow21 

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Posted 2012-March-28, 14:01

 Free, on 2012-March-28, 13:47, said:

Because you need to endplay RHO in when he's out of s. If split 3-2 it doesn't matter, if they split 4-1 or 5-0 you need LHO to have the long s. You can count as much as you want, but that won't change a thing. ;)

Not if the trumps suggest that RHO might have the long diamonds and a singleton in clubs and hearts (see above discussion with MrAce).
There is a big difference between a good decision and a good result. Let's keep our posts about good decisions rather than "gotcha" results!
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#29 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-March-28, 15:09

 HighLow21, on 2012-March-25, 13:34, said:

Easy. Draw trumps, cash 1 round of diamonds ONLY (hoping for a 3-2 split, if so the contract is simple, but we shouldn't cash 2 rounds yet). Next cash A and exit with a low club.

If RHO wins and he returns a diamond, you are golden unless he started with 4 of them. Very unlikely. So assume LHO wins and returns a diamond.

Now you exit with a spade. If RHO started with 1 diamond and wins the 2nd spade he is endplayed.

Assuming the defenders are weak, you might want to cash 4 rounds of trumps before all this. This allows an ill-advised discard of a diamond with a holder of 4, or a spade by LHO.


Gives up an easy over if rho has singleton club.

Draw trumps cashing two diamonds seems obvious start. If rho has 4 diamonds have to hope he has a singleton club, say 7411, play spade now, win the return cash diamond ace and club ace and throw in with diamond.

Kayins line is 100% if rho has 8 spades, as now he must have singleton club if he has 4 diamonds. His line is also 100% if rho has 7 spades and at least one heart.
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