[bd71]

---

Team game. 2/1.

Lucky to lose only 10 IMPs vs. 6♣ at other table when they didn't take their 6 ♦ tricks off the top against 3N.

[dwar0123]

I think south gave up on clubs to quickly, it would have taken very little to prod north into heading towards slam. If 3♠ asks for a stopper, I am not sure what else north can do but show it.

I think you had an entire level of the auction to play with before trying to sign off in 3nt and south just skipped over it.

[aguahombre]

Since we had 2C to show a spade control and clubs at first opportunity (and later the splinter), this one was relatively easy. But apparently that is not the OP condition, so content to listen.

[Cthulhu D]

I'm presuming 2S was a good club raise? So North knows he's sitting on a 10 card fit, but south only knows about 8? North's bidding looks like a 13-14 weak NT, so south is not going to know how to pull.

[aguahombre]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-March-27, 22:03, said:

I'm presuming 2S was a good club raise? So North knows he's sitting on a 10 card fit, but south only knows about 8? North's bidding looks like a 13-14 weak NT, so south is not going to know how to pull.

I don't understand that. North knows about 9 clubs, and South knows about ten if the 2S bid shows five. I doubt 2S could be as few as 3 clubs.

[jjbrr]

tough hand. i think 3♠ is a bad bid.

[rduran1216]

2S is just forcing without 4H, without a 5 card diamond suit, etc.

I think south should try 4C. North has a hand that chose not to bid 3NT over 1S, must be because he has good long clubs, and now South's hand is worth a try.

[HighLow21]

This is a tough one, but I tend to ATB North the most. He's hyperstrong in clubs, and has 3 small red cards. Whatever partner's holding in clubs, North should assume no club losers and at most one spade loser. South cannot know any of this. I actually think a 4♦ splinter is far better than 2♠. Then South cues 4♥, North bids 4NT, RKCB, finds out they have 4 keys, and bids 6♣.

Edit: or would 3♦ be a splinter?

This post has been edited by HighLow21: 2012-March-28, 00:05

[BunnyGo]

jjbrr, on 2012-March-27, 22:32, said:

tough hand. i think 3♠ is a bad bid.

This.

I think that South is:

a) not so sure about diamond stoppers either
b) not so sure clubs is worth avoiding
c) can show all this by cuebidding hearts.

[P_Marlowe]

We would not reach slam.

Sry - North is looking at KJ in their suit, ok the finess is
working, ..., assuming partner has 2 spades to make the finesses.

And if he has, East may have a single.

Did they reach slam on the other table after a 1S overcall?
If yes, lets play more often against them.

Harder is the question, how to get to 5C, avoiding 3NT.

The start of the auction seems clear upto 2S.

I dont like 3S, but can understand, if South is not willing to
commit the partnership to 3NT with only Ax, I would, but Ax is
not the best stopper.

Most would play 2S as inv.+ with fit, hence South is actually to
weak to accept the invite, and could bid 3C.
If 2S was game forcing, than he still could bid 3C to see what
partner is up to.
He is not only concerned about spades, but also about diamonds.
If Partner showes diamond values, he has heart values, that can be
bid.

So in hinsight, 3C would cover most / if not all of your bases.

If it comes to ATB - it took some time to get the argument for 3C
together, so ..., most of the blame goes to East / West, the timing
of the 1S overcall was good.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Codo]

1 ♣ great
2 ♠ systemic- a better description of the hand would be a 3 ♦ splinter, but even if you have this tool avaiable, this usually shows a stronger hand.
3♠ (what else? You have enough for game but you will often need help in spades.)
3 NT (what else, Spades are no problem...)


So, I had bid the same way given your methoods. They bid a suit where I have six cards and 3 top Honours but not a suit, where we hold just four small cards. This happens- but quite seldom.

[ahydra]

Slams on thin values are always hard to find. Here I think North can just about upgrade to a 3D splinter and then south should really like his hand, despite it being a balanced 13 - xxx is as close to a perfect holding in the splinter suit as you can get, and the side AAK is awesome.

What I don't get about the original auction is why bid 3S asking for a stop when you already have one

ahydra

[Cyberyeti]

Yet another "we opened a short club, couldn't raise it and missed the right spot" thread.

We play a 4 card club, and excluding the fact that we'd open a weak no trump, we play 1♣-(1♠)-2♣ as still inverted F1 not denying 4M. I'd have thought playing a short club there's even more of a case for still playing this inverted.

I'd mainly put this down to system.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

HighLow21, on 2012-March-28, 00:04, said:

I actually think a 4♦ splinter is far better than 2♠.

Edit: or would 3♦ be a splinter?

4D! is the splinter
3D! would be a fit-showing-jump ( in competition ) .

[Cthulhu D]

aguahombre, on 2012-March-27, 22:09, said:

I don't understand that. North knows about 9 clubs, and South knows about ten if the 2S bid shows five. I doubt 2S could be as few as 3 clubs.

Sorry, I had north and south reversed, I misread the bidding.

[wyman]

HighLow21, on 2012-March-28, 00:04, said:

This is a tough one, but I tend to ATB North the most. He's hyperstrong in clubs, and has 3 small red cards. Whatever partner's holding in clubs, North should assume no club losers and at most one spade loser. South cannot know any of this. I actually think a 4♦ splinter is far better than 2♠. Then South cues 4♥, North bids 4NT, RKCB, finds out they have 4 keys, and bids 6♣.

Edit: or would 3♦ be a splinter?

So north should cater to the times when south holds exactly AK A in the reds by splintering and bypassing 3N rather than keeping the auction low, finding out if partner is a min (3C) and keeping 3N in play? Surely south is not a favorite to have the spade ace on this auction. This is a vulnerable 1S overcall. A void? Could be, but we'll hear about that soon enough (either by partner or by east!). So we are looking for both red aces, a red king to cover our other red loser, and we have to dodge spade to the ace and a ruff: partner can certainly be 3xx3/4/5 or 2xx3/4/5 with west holding 6 spades. Hell, we might go down off the top in 5 clubs -- 2 aces and a ruff.

Point is, given only north's hand and the auction thru 1S, are NS more likely (with practical considerations, including the lead) to make 3N or 6C, I think the answer is 3N. And in any case, 2S is flexible. It doesn't say that we can't play 6C. But the auction is over at 3S imo. What else can north do?

And 3D is not a splinter in these auctions. Most play that 3D is fit-showing, some play that it's weak.

[wyman]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-March-28, 04:00, said:

Yet another "we opened a short club, couldn't raise it and missed the right spot" thread.

We play a 4 card club, and excluding the fact that we'd open a weak no trump, we play 1♣-(1♠)-2♣ as still inverted F1 not denying 4M. I'd have thought playing a short club there's even more of a case for still playing this inverted.

I'd mainly put this down to system.

afaik, the club is 3+, and 2S was a club raise (5+, limit+).

[wyman]

P_Marlowe, on 2012-March-28, 02:07, said:

Did they reach slam on the other table after a 1S overcall?
If yes, lets play more often against them.

Yes.

1C (1S) 2S (P)
2N 4D
blah blah blah

[ggwhiz]

the 2nt bid followed by the splinter is a good auction but you should have survived after the 3♠ bid too.

A method that requires a 3nt bid with Norths red suits is just plain wrong at imps. North knows the 3♠ bidder has very little in the black suits and should bid 4♣ and probably cue to slam from there.

[kayin801]

I don't really like 3♠, I would just bid 2NT or 3♣, but I hate 3NT. It's not MP, we have AKJ 6th in opener's suit, what holdings can partner really have where 5♣ isn't just as good, if not better than 3NT? The shorter opener's clubs the longer his spades, which lends to our spade honors being well-placed (though makes us susceptible to ruffs). After 3♠ looking for a stopper I'd bid 4♦ which can't really be taken as anything but a diamond cue for clubs. Yes, it's weird that we have AKJ in overcaller's suit, but if we didn't we'd still likely only have one spade loser and we'd have points elsewhere. Slam is almost as good when S has the other pointed ace and 5♣ is still pretty good if those 4 points are gone altogether.