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How do you respond with a balanced 19 count? After opener's 1C

#41 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2012-April-03, 13:25

View Postmikeh, on 2012-April-03, 13:17, said:

This thread has degenerated into precisely the type of discussion that caused this forum to be hived of from the old I/A.



And now I understand why JaD wanted experts to keep out of this forum, and my apologies for questioning the resoning.
You were right all along :)
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
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#42 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2012-April-03, 13:55

View Postjillybean, on 2012-April-03, 13:25, said:

And now I understand why JaD wanted experts to keep out of this forum, and my apologies for questioning the resoning.
You were right all along :)


Without turning this into (yet another) "what's appropriate for N/B" thread, I'll say that I think it's good that people are calling others out on poor posts (for the audience). To keep the threads (moderately?) clutter-free, I'll suggest doing this via PM and making liberal use of the "edit" feature if you receive feedback that perhaps your post is not aimed at the right audience.
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg

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#43 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2012-April-03, 14:14

... And to make amends for my earlier comment, the following is an easy to follow description (for beginners) of which bids are and are not forcing partner to bid again!

http://www.math.corn...elk/forcing.htm
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg

"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other.” -- Hamman, re: Wolff
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#44 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 09:36

I don't normally comment in this forum, but I thought I would add my 2 cents worth.

The original idea of inviting slam with 4NT if partner rebids 1NT is fine, as far as it goes. One of the posters even went so far as to mention that the only possible contracts would be 4NT or 6NT. And for the purposes of this Forum, perhaps that is as far as we should go. The main point is that a balanced 19 count opposite an opening bid is not a slam force - it is a slam invitation.

However, if one goes back to the initial post, one can see the spoiler. It was mentioned that the at the table result was a "good" 6NT which was made. All well and good, but 6NT is only a fair contract. You start with 4 clubs, 3 diamonds, 2 hearts and a spade for 10 tricks. There are many possibilities for an 11th trick (spade finesse, diamond finesse or drop, various plays in the heart suit that can result in an extra trick, and other possibilities beyond the scope of this forum), and, once one of them comes in, there are some possibilities for a 12th trick. Also, the opening lead may give you an 11th trick, which gives you many more chances to work on making a 12th trick. All in all, I would say that 6NT is a reasonable contract.

However, the BEST contract is 6. It needs far less to go right in order to make. And 6 is a contract that is very difficult to reach for any players at any level. While 6 does not score as well as 6NT, it is much more likely to succeed. So, even at matchpoints, I would rather be in 6 than 6NT.

EDIT: I note that in one of the early posts nigel_k mentioned that 6 is the best contract on this hand.
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#45 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2012-April-04, 19:46

View PostArtK78, on 2012-April-04, 09:36, said:

However, the BEST contract is 6. It needs far less to go right in order to make. And 6 is a contract that is very difficult to reach for any players at any level. While 6 does not score as well as 6NT, it is much more likely to succeed. So, even at matchpoints, I would rather be in 6 than 6NT.

EDIT: I note that in one of the early posts nigel_k mentioned that 6 is the best contract on this hand.


Scoring was matchpoints, which might change things a bit. At IMPs I am with you 100%
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