[gnasher]

I agree that (1m) 3m is better used as natural - I just haven't got around to changing it yet. Apparently I'm not the only one:

http://www.ecatsbrid...kolev-mihov.pdf
http://www.ecatsbrid...t-schaltzBS.pdf
http://www.ecatsbrid...on-crouchBS.pdf
http://www.ecatsbrid...ller-Rehder.pdf
http://www.ecatsbrid...emo-helness.pdf
http://www.ecatsbrid...rg-Svendsen.pdf
http://www.ecatsbrid...lov-rudakov.pdf
http://www.ecatsbrid...irman-Padon.pdf
http://www.ecatsbrid...-zmudzinski.pdf

[JLOGIC]

Oh yes I didn't doubt you guys who said it was standard in europe to play stopper ask. I find things like this fascinating, I'm guessing the internet will bridge these regional gaps (and conversely, pre internet, there were far more). It's not even that one must be better than the other it's just very interesting to me that something that is so standard to top american players is the opposite of standard from equally good european players. This is not an uncommon situation either. FWIW I just wanted to confirm that I was at least correct about what I viewed the normal top expert american view to me and that I wasn't incorrect about that too.

It might also have to do with the factors that han and you said. I feel like there should be some reason, but maybe it's just that it doesn't matter long term. This is one reason the internet is great though.

[gnasher]

[duplicated post]

[gnasher]

I think "standard in Europe" would have been an overbid if we'd said that (though in fact Han and I both spoke only of our own countries).

There is a reason that there are no Italian, Swedish or Dutch pairs on my list - none of them say they play the cue as a stop-ask. Also, there were several countries where the first pair I picked weren't playing it. There were also a number of pairs who were playing it only over 1♦, perhaps reflecting a regional tendency to play 4- or 5-card diamond openings.

I agree about the Internet. In England especially I think it's been quite significant in changing what people play.

[ArtK78]

I have been playing bridge for 40 years now, and through all that time I have played (1m) - 3m as a natural preempt.

I don't recall ever seeing anyone play it any other way, but I do not play internationally and the number of times I have seen anyone else make that call is less than 10. I have made the call more than 10 times, but not a lot more.

I suspect that if I were playing (1m) - 3m as a stopper ask, I would have bid it even less often than I have.

So, this is not an agreement that I would lose sleep over.

[dkham]

Perhaps in e.g. England with a history of four card majors a (1m) opening bid is likely to be a proper suit, so you don't have any use for (1m)-3m as natural, hence using it as a stopper ask.

[Bende]

If (1m) - 3m is played as natural, which strength is it normally played as, preemptive or a sound overcall? Does it depend on if (1m) - 2m is played as natural or Michaels?

[JLOGIC]

Something like good preempt, with a sound overcall you just start with pass (or if playing 1m-2m nat, with 2m). Of course you can't have a terrible preempt when it's their suit.

[jh51]

aguahombre, on 2012-June-12, 21:20, said:

I think most play that "Reverse Treadwell" asking for a club stop with a long suit to run.

I thought that "Reverse Treadwell" was when you were supposed to bid 3NT if I had a club stop and a long suit to run.

(If I am recalling correctly the way that I heard him explain it.)

[dkham]

Yes, I thought it was an opening 3NT that says "I have most suits stopped, pass if you have a solid eight card minor".

[FrancesHinden]

Obviously part of the difference in England is the historical meaning of a 1C opening: if you play really strict 4-card majors, then your 1m openings are usually 5+ cards (and if you play weak NT as well, then if they aren't 5+ cards they are a strong NT) and you'd be better off playing 1M-3M as natural than 1C-3C.

p.s. in one partnership I play 1C-3C as super-Michaels i.e. 6-5 or more. 1C-2C is allowed to be 5-4 and partner isn't supposed to get enthusiastic over it.

[Zelandakh]

gnasher, on 2012-June-13, 01:36, said:

In England it's common to play (1m) 3m as a stopper-ask, even amongst the top players. Maybe this is because of our 4-card major heritage.

In those parts of the UK (including Scotland) I have been I have only seen (1m) - 3m as natural and, on a few occasions, 1♣ - 3♣ as spades and diamonds (CRASH). On the other hand I never saw anyone play (1M) - 3M as anything other than a stopper ask. Most likely at least some opponents played that as natural but never bid it. It is interesting that this observation is the opposite of Frances' suggestion.

[gnasher]

Zelandakh, on 2012-June-20, 07:52, said:

In those parts of the UK (including Scotland) I have been I have only seen (1m) - 3m as natural and, on a few occasions, 1♣ - 3♣ as spades and diamonds (CRASH).

I said it was common to *play* it as a stopper ask. I didn't say it was common to *bid* it as a stopper ask. Counting the number of occurrences doesn't directly tell us anything about the frequency of having the agreement (except that for the methods you've seen at the table it's non-zero).

The likelihood of being dealt a hand suitable for the stopper ask is much less than the likelihood of being dealt a jump overcall in the suit. I can't remember ever bidding it, though I think I've replied to it once or twice.

[ggwhiz]

Many years ago my pard doubled on a hand like this and it went redouble - float.

I tried similar moves a couple of times before I realized that this move will not work again until 2082.

I'm passing.