[han]

aguahombre, on 2012-September-08, 14:02, said:

Oh, I read what you wrote. I just prefer to stick with the idea that if pard Wants to invite game opposite a simple raise, she will invite game and I will accept. If not, we are in 2S ---without providing information to the opponents.

Using Drury, we also will probably stay at the 2-level if partner can sort out the difference between an invitational hand and this one.

Others have carefully explained why they think that it is better to bid drury with a wider range, and then you react like this? What are you, a bridge player or a politician?!?

[MrAce]

Auto drury and to me it is not even close. But i respect other opinions of course, especially if they are not opening most of the 11 hcps and some 12 hcps. I open all 12 hcps and most 11 hcps.

Playing this type of drury made me win so many times. Not only after drury auctions but also after 1♠-2♠ auctions where we managed to play 2♠ while other table ended up playing 3♠ going down, +110 instead of -100 or -50 is sweet gain even in imps.

[gszes]

2s as a non passed hand 2s as a passed hand need Qxx of spades vs
xxx to make a drury call missing Q may not seem like much but it means
our hand is short around 23% of the power we are promising with drury.

[dake50]

This discussion is such an advertisement for 3rd-hand 1C
forcing I can't resist.
Whatever system you play in 1st,2nd seat, being able to show
1S/1H strong when rebid after a 1C opener AND 1S/1H
not-so-much by simply opening 1S/1H must gain.
Let alone gaining a NT-ladder clarity 1C, eg. rebid 1NT:18-20.
1D rebid 1NT:10-14.

[aguahombre]

han, on 2012-September-09, 02:42, said:

Others have carefully explained why they think that it is better to bid drury with a wider range, and then you react like this? What are you, a bridge player or a politician?!?

Good point. Once, some posters have carefully explained why they would use Drury, I should merely choose 2S with this hand ---as others have done.

Offering reasons for not falling in line was futile; those who want to use Drury won't rethink it, and the others already know why it isn't good for them. Unlike a politician, I don't really care which approach you choose.

Edit: and unlike a politician, I don't want to stifle opposing thoughts.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2012-September-09, 07:35

[semeai]

aguahombre, on 2012-September-09, 07:29, said:

Good point. Once, some posters have carefully explained why they would use Drury, I should merely choose 2S with this hand ---as others have done.

Offering reasons for not falling in line was futile; those who want to use Drury won't rethink it, and the others already know why it isn't good for them. Unlike a politician, I don't really care which approach you choose.

Edit: and unlike a politician, I don't want to stifle opposing thoughts.

Isn't this a discussion forum?

All I did was honestly describe my position to you (plus the "Did you even read what I wrote?" line, which I apologize for, but it really seemed to me that your comment had nothing to do with what I wrote). All you did was give snide remarks back, and then finally one sentence of argument, which I responded to, as one does in a discussion. There's no need to roll over and agree with what I have to say, but what are we doing here if we're not discussing things?

[aguahombre]

I can't wait for Phil's second part in this "series".

[Trinidad]

Just my $0.02:

There are two things that you can do when you get this hand:

A) Use the convention that shows an 8-12 raise (I think it is called Drury or something).
B) Figure out something now and use this hand to convince your partner that you really should start playing Drury.

If you play Drury and you don't bid it with this hand, you will miss a lot of good games when partner has a decent hand (say 16 points), since partner will be sure that you can't have 9.

Rik

[phil_20686]

MrAce, on 2012-September-09, 02:57, said:

Auto drury and to me it is not even close. But i respect other opinions of course, especially if they are not opening most of the 11 hcps and some 12 hcps. I open all 12 hcps and most 11 hcps.

Playing this type of drury made me win so many times. Not only after drury auctions but also after 1♠-2♠ auctions where we managed to play 2♠ while other table ended up playing 3♠ going down, +110 instead of -100 or -50 is sweet gain even in imps.

I open pretty much all 8 counts with five spades in third. That's what Drury is for!

[the_clown]

I would certainly bid drury followed by 2♠ even if partner shows a full opening bid.

[Phil]

Sorry for the lag. This was from Fridays KO.

You choose to Drury. Partner bids 2S and RHO jumps in with 2N.

Now?

Edit: if it matters to you, partner started playing bridge when Ike was president. Therefore, he tends to be a pretty sound bidder.

[semeai]

Phil, on 2012-September-10, 08:22, said:

Sorry for the lag. This was from Fridays KO.

You choose to Drury. Partner bids 2S and RHO jumps in with 2N.

Now?

Pass. I don't want to compete; our hand is pretty defense oriented. I don't see a need to double either, though: I don't think we're doubling them with partner's min and my not-a-limit-raise, especially at imps.

[CSGibson]

Drury is clear at first - its so clear as to be a non-problem if playing the convention.

After having used Drury, my hand is fully described, partner is captain. I pass.

[aguahombre]

So, to recap what has been covered so far, we have two possible paths to this 2NT bid by righty:

P (P) 1S (P)
2C (P) 2S (2N)...where we feel we have described accurately our constructive raise and pass.

OR

P (P) 1S (P)
2S (P) P (2N)...where we would feel compelled to show Max defense and suggest cooperation via free double.

Waiting for the next shoe to drop in the series to see whether this time we gain, lose or break even with those who chose Drury --- that choice is water over the dam. Here we are.

[MrAce]

aguahombre, on 2012-September-10, 14:22, said:

So, to recap what has been covered so far, we have two possible paths to this 2NT bid by righty:

P (P) 1S (P)
2C (P) 2S (2N)...where we feel we have described accurately our constructive raise and pass.

OR

P (P) 1S (P)
2S (P) P (2N)...where we would feel compelled to show Max defense and suggest cooperation via free double.

Waiting for the next shoe to drop in the series to see whether this time we gain, lose or break even with those who chose Drury --- that choice is water over the dam. Here we are.

I really don't mind whether you use drury or not, or if you do so, whether you would do it with this hand or not. What really annoys me is the thought of playing constructive 2 raises by a passed hand. Which means you will hide your fit with non-constructive fit hands and start 1NT. Not only it is passable but even if pd makes a bid, he will never know after you return to his major whether you have 3 card support or 2 card support and sometimes 1 card support !! I have seen people doing it with 4 card support too !!!

I have to admit it has an advantage, when your side signes off in 2 major, opponents also don't know whether you guys have a fit or not and are less brave in competing. Is this good enoug reason to hide the fit ? It is upto people, imo it is not. But otoh 1♠-2♠ has its own preemptive values. As 4th man you see these dudes opened 1♠ and other one bid 1NT you have 8-9 count and a sweet 6 card suit, lets say x AJT9xx Kxx xxx and you overcalled 2♥, which you may or may not do at 3 level. Just this overcall can open a can of worms for opponents in many different ways.

I know i am minority but i don't use constructive raises even by unpassed hand.

Back to drury; to be honest i do not understand the "drury allergy" of some people. It is one of the simplest, effective tools i had ever used.

[aguahombre]

The constructive raise in was the Drury auction. I didn't say 1S-2S was constructive at that point. The double later when they stepped in showed the constructive nature.

Anyway, my last post was what it said ---a recap, not a continuation of the Drury argument. I agree with the Drury folks who are content to pass 2NT, and mentioned that the 2S raisers couldn't pass, but had to double 2NT. Whatever those two things lead to because of the previous auction is yet to come.

[sathyab]

MrAce, on 2012-September-10, 16:41, said:

I have to admit it has an advantage, when your side signes off in 2 major, opponents also don't know whether you guys have a fit or not and are less brave in competing. Is this good enoug reason to hide the fit ? It is upto people, imo it is not. But otoh 1♠-2♠ has its own preemptive values. As 4th man you see these dudes opened 1♠ and other one bid 1NT you have 8-9 count and a sweet 6 card suit, lets say x AJT9xx Kxx xxx and you overcalled 2♥, which you may or may not do at 3 level. Just this overcall can open a can of worms for opponents in many different ways.

Brd #10, second final; EW 1s-1nt; North now introduces 2♥ with ♠J ♥ KJTxxx ♦ T9x ♣ Axx; ♥ lead is the only one that holds it to 11 tricks

http://www.d21acbl.c...ghtA/NAPA-4.htm

[Phil]

sathyab, on 2012-September-10, 17:16, said:

http://www.d21acbl.c...ghtA/NAPA-4.htm

TWO 710's?? wtf

[Phil]

btw someone suggested a sensible way to show the min LR is to start with 1N. If partner passes you'll do fine in 1N with a 4-3 or 5-3 with a balanced hand, but if partner pulls to show a good opener (this I disagree with) you can jump to 3♠.

I did not like that idea.

[sathyab]

Phil, on 2012-September-10, 17:35, said:

TWO 710's?? wtf

My guess is that declarer played a ♣ from dummy toward his Q first. When he played a second ♣, North who was not paying attention to his partner's card played low again. No, we were not that lucky EW, but one of the two lucky NS against whom EW were playing constructive raises.