[straube]

I've been thinking about 3rd and 4th seat openings lately in the context of a strong club system. In third seat, for example, how about...

1C-strong
1D-0+ diamonds, could be natural or both minors
1H-5+
1S-5+
1N-15-17
2C-natural, 5-13
2D-natural, 5-13
2H-weak
2S-weak
2N-clubs, 14-15
.....3C-to play
.....3D-stayman
.....3H-natural, f
.....3S-natural, f

The 5-13 range comes up a lot and puts obvious pressure on 4th hand.

I've also been wondering about 4th seat. For 2m openings to be natural, I'd want to raise their range to 13-17 or so (or just not open) and then I'm wondering how frequently this range would turn up. Similar considerations for 2M. Are all these 2-level bids best used as natural? And what would folks recommend the ranges be for each of these openings?

[Free]

Absolutely HATE the 2NT opening!

[straube]

Free, on 2012-December-19, 15:57, said:

Absolutely HATE the 2NT opening!

Me, too, but it's frequency is low. I mean look at some hands (I did) and see how often you have a 14-16 point 6-club hand vs how often you have 5-13. Next, look how often 4th chair has something to say over a 2C 10-15 point range (very often) and how much more difficult you can make it for him by separating the 5-13 from 14-15 ranges.

[steve2005]

Why not include 14-15 pts with clubs in 1♦? That way you can get out at 2 level, while still have possibility of investigating game if partner has decent hand for a pass.
Both minors 5-5 as 2N would be better. This would still be ACBL GCC, if that matters.
Opening 1♦ on both minors makes opp finding major suit fit easier

[straube]

steve2005, on 2012-December-20, 11:25, said:

Why not include 14-15 pts with clubs in 1♦? That way you can get out at 2 level, while still have possibility of investigating game if partner has decent hand for a pass.
Both minors 5-5 as 2N would be better. This would still be ACBL GCC, if that matters.
Opening 1♦ on both minors makes opp finding major suit fit easier

2N as 5/5 minors is a good and widely used opening.

I'd be concerned with 1D-1M, 2C having to handle hands with six clubs as well as some 5C431 patterns as well as 1444.

I'm wondering also if I dislike the 2N showing 14-16 with six clubs as much as Free does. These hands overlap somewhat with hands that would open 1C (natural) and then rebid 3C. These hands are forward-going. They invite the passed hand to take action and there's enough room to find most of the major suit fits available. Passed hand will seldom have a six-cd major so we don't have to worry about uncovering 6-2 major suit fits.

Several worries...1) we're just up too high on a misfit 2) the bid allows my LHO to pass and then double 3C for penalty 3) we lose 4-4 major suit fits when responder has meager strength.

We play (in 1st and 2nd seat) that a 2N opening shows 10-15 and 6C/4H. A lot of differences here, but the few times it has come up nothing bad happened and I think it will probably prove a winner in the long run.

[pigpenz]

I loved playing two suited two bids
2♦=♥♦ or♦♣
2♥=♣♥ or ♥♠
2♠=♠ with ♣or ♦
you can pick your own range you want to play for values
you have a lot of leeway since partner couldnt open

this was a modication from Ron Gerards article on one two three suiters in Bride World back in 1980
ACBL said we had to have a known anchor suit so we modified it to make it a weak two with a five card suit
that has either a 4/5 side suit. that was ok with the powers to be

The HOG(Ron Anderson) complained to the ACBL back at the nationals in in Fresno 1980
that he didnt have ample time to come up with a defense to the 123 two suiter bid that
Ron Gerard and Larry Cohen were playing....can you imagine the HOG complaining

[rbforster]

What about this:

1♦ 12-14 balanced, strong minor hand, or unbal minimum minor hand with 4M
2m 5-12 5+ minor, could be 5m/4+om or sometimes 6m/4♥

The 5 card minor hands preempting should add to the pressure in 3rd seat, and I don't think there's too much of an issue adding low ranking side suits. After an uncontested

p-1♦-1M

1♠ natural unbal, with 4+ in either minor
1N min values; balanced, or over 1♠, also 14(53)/1444
2m min 3-4 card M raise, bidding 5+ minor naturally (only 3M raise if 4OM + min)
2M balanced 4 card raise
2OM natural, strong hand
2N both minors strong
3m one minor, strong
3M strong 4 card raise