[cherdano]

Yes, I also thought pass was clear but wanted to double-check. For all I knew I may have been anti-resulting (Partner's hand was AKx - KJxx AKQxxx.)

P.S.: Of course we had the 2H vs 3C debate before. I can see the merits of 3C but I thought 2H would work fairly well in terms of choice of games, e.g.:
- 4C over 2S.
- 3C (forcing and natural) over 2N.
- 3S over a (non-forcing) 3C.

Of course it's a matter of chicken-and-egg, but I wouldn't expect partner to bid 3H over 3C with only two hearts.

[sathyab]

cherdano, on 2013-July-30, 13:08, said:

Yes, I also thought pass was clear but wanted to double-check. For all I knew I may have been anti-resulting (Partner's hand was AKx - KJxx AKQxxx.)

P.S.: Of course we had the 2H vs 3C debate before. I can see the merits of 3C but I thought 2H would work fairly well in terms of choice of games, e.g.:
- 4C over 2S.
- 3C (forcing and natural) over 2N.
- 3S over a (non-forcing) 3C.

Of course it's a matter of chicken-and-egg, but I wouldn't expect partner to bid 3H over 3C with only two hearts.

Is 3♣ over 2nt forcing ? A lot of people play it non-forcing to make a distinction between a direct 3♣ versus getting there after a non-forcing bid, such as 2♥ here.

4♣ over 2♠ ? Would 3♣ be non-forcing ?

[cherdano]

Yes, 3C would have been forcing with this partner.
I would hate to bid 3C over 2S - you have real support, not a preference, and if partner doesn't want to bid NT, I don't want to play NT.

[mike777]

opener had a decision to make 3nt or 2s after 2h.

[Zelandakh]

Has anyone experimented with using a 2♥ rebid as non-forcing and channeling the GF hands with 5 hearts through 2♠? It would be possible to arrange it so that 2♠ always showed 5 hearts, for example (using transfers):-

1♣ - 1♥ - 2♦
============
2♥ = to play
2♠ = 5 hearts, GF
2N = clubs
3♣ = diamonds
3♦ = 6+ hearts
3♥ = agrees hearts

There is just so much space over 2♦. It seems to me that we should either include extra hand types here or (if the reverse remains pure) use the extra space to allow Responder to describe more clearly.

[JLOGIC]

Natural 2N seems pretty important to me in these (3 suits bid) auction

[Zelandakh]

Did you notice it was a reverse Justin?

[JLOGIC]

Yes. I am just generally skeptical about systems where a NT bid is artificial and not showing a stopper when 3 suits have been bid, they are likely to lead the 4th suit so I think rightsiding NT is important. I wouldn't like bidding 2N with nothing in spades.

[Zelandakh]

Do you also play a natural 2NT in 1m - 1♠; 2♥ auctions? The arguments are similar there but space is now so short that it seems like a bad idea. Also, after 1♣ - 1♥; 2♦, for us not to have a fit we must either have 5+ hearts or be 4=4=3=2. Perhaps it is not ideal to bid 2NT followed by 3♠ (to deny a stopper) with that hand but we should at least end up in a playable spot. You could use a direct 3♠ (over 2♦) for that too without wrong-siding (a la Rubensohl) although I quite like the idea of using that as a void splinter.

[JLOGIC]

Yeah I prefer to just play 2S weak over 2H reverses, with 5 spades and a spade stopper I would bid 2N and with 5 spades and no spade stopper and no fit I would bid the 4th suit. I don't play that much natural anymore but my last 3 natural partners all played this so maybe it's catching on

While that is obviously non standard I did think it was pretty standard to play 4th suit as weak over 2D reverses and use 2N as nat.

[PhilKing]

After 1♣-1M-2♦, as long as one does away with the obsession about majors, you can do the lot:

2♥ = artificial, showing invitational values (usually 7-8, but can be GF with hands that don't want to get pard excited). Over this, opener bids 2♠(art) or 2NT (nat), with minimum reverses, and everything at the three level is GF.

2♠ = artificial, very weak response (max bad 6). Opener can bid 2NT or 3♣ unless super-strong

2NT = nat, weak, but promises five cards in the major

3♣+, GF

The main thing you get is the extra layer (weak, inv and GF) as opposed to the usual weak/GF arrangement. This allows a slightly more relaxed approach to reversing with decent 4-6 hands with 15 points. But you also get more natural 2NT bids for your money - we don't always have a fit or game after reversing.