[PeterAlan]

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Result: 2♥+3 = 200.

Ordinary club bridge. Essentially natural / normal methods apply here. FWIW, 11 tricks are always available in ♥ (though weren't always made), and no other game contract makes.

East and West differed over why game wasn't bid: West thought East should have doubled on the first round; East considered (1) with 3=5 in the majors it was better to get the ♥ into the picture straight away, and that X would have too many problems over a likely ♠ response, and (2) West was far too strong to Pass 2♥.

Your thoughts?

[sfi]

Not raising hearts is, shall we say, odd.

[johnu]

West left the ♥K in the board when getting his hand and didn't notice the 4-2-4-2 distribution before passing partner's 2 level overcall?

[aguahombre]

We would make a simple courtesy raise to 3H, but don't think the pass is as egregious as others do. The overcaller must assume about 6-9 from partner at the time of the overcall. I would prefer to have methods over 2D to show good two-suiters like this one, but apparently that is not the case...making the 3H courtesy raise more necessary.

[the hog]

West has an obvious raise. I really do think passing is egregious! It is not a "courtesy" raise for me, but a full blooded raise.

[aguahombre]

the hog, on 2013-August-08, 21:12, said:

West has an obvious raise. I really do think passing is egregious! It is not a "courtesy" raise for me, but a full blooded raise.

Maybe we have definition differences. If you thought that hand is worth more than a mere courtesy raise, you would bid 3D, not 3H.

[Free]

West is just short of an invitational raise, what was he thinking?

[ArtK78]

I agree with the majority here. West must raise hearts.

[mycroft]

I play that direct action over preempts is sound, so I think I'm bidding and doubling, because I can't afford to double and bid (which would show a *much* stronger hand than this). Because of this, the West hand is, if not invitational, pretty close - in fact, I'd be more concerned that it's too strong for an invitation than too weak. If this pair would overcall with the same hand but KJxxx of hearts and 1=4 in the minors, then I can see the worry - but I'm still raising.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

aguahombre, on 2013-August-08, 19:58, said:

We would make a simple courtesy raise to 3H, but don't think the pass is as egregious as others do. The overcaller must assume about 6-9 from partner at the time of the overcall. I would prefer to have methods over 2D to show good two-suiters like this one, but apparently that is not the case...making the 3H courtesy raise more necessary.

The last time a weak-2D was posted, Zelandakh gave the following overcall structure:

3D = stop-ask
3H/3S = srong jump
4C = Cl + Major ( 4D = asks Major )
4D = both Majors

[aguahombre]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-August-09, 13:14, said:

The last time a weak-2D was posted, Zelandakh gave the following overcall structure:

3D = stop-ask
3H/3S = srong jump
4C = Cl + Major ( 4D = asks Major )
4D = both Majors

Yes, he did. At least, it is a structure to handle two-suiters which is important to have. We don't like his use of the 3D and 4D bids, but we don't have to like them...he does.

[mikeh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-August-09, 13:14, said:

The last time a weak-2D was posted, Zelandakh gave the following overcall structure:

3D = stop-ask
3H/3S = srong jump
4C = Cl + Major ( 4D = asks Major )
4D = both Majors

The hand is 'wrong' for a 2-suited overcall. The club suit is too weak, and the spade suit too long/strong to commit to playing one of our suits.

I agree with the criticism of West's lack of a raise. I wouldn't double as East since for me a double then hearts promises longer hearts.

We are heavy for 2♥ but it's not a crime to be at the upper end of one's range. Add to this that once in a (long) while, we'll hear partner do something other than pass or raise hearts, and we're liking our start.

[MrAce]

Imo West does not have a courtesy raise but a textbook clear 3♥ raise

[aguahombre]

MrAce, on 2013-August-09, 15:04, said:

Imo West does not have a courtesy raise but a textbook clear 3♥ raise

I think we just have a different definition of a courtesy raise. My courtesy raise of a 2-level overcall would be carried on to game with that monster, but is not a true game try. I don't know whether your textbook says 3H is a game try or not. In the BW thread regarding the Spingold appeal case, we learned that some experts (Rosenberg, in particular) treat a raise from two to 3 as a real game try and the cue as other things. We use the cue as a fit-showing game try+. I don't believe this hand rises to that standard, but it still should courtesy raise in case the overcaller is super max under pressure and wants to continue to game.

[neilkaz]

MrAce, on 2013-August-09, 15:04, said:

Imo West does not have a courtesy raise but a textbook clear 3♥ raise

Exactly

[PeterAlan]

Thanks for all the responses.