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4 Jacks and no 5 card suit including 2 honors stiff, my opponent decided to downgrade, lets take a look at the frequencies:
1NT W -2 200
3NT E -2 200
2NT E -1 100
3NT E -1 100
3NT E -1 100
3 ♣ E = -110
2NT E = -120
2NT E = -120
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LOL downgrades
#1
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Posted 2013-August-11, 15:42
4 Jacks and no 5 card suit including 2 honors stiff, my opponent decided to downgrade, lets take a look at the frequencies:
1NT W -2 200
3NT E -2 200
2NT E -1 100
3NT E -1 100
3NT E -1 100
3 ♣ E = -110
2NT E = -120
2NT E = -120
#2
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Posted 2013-August-12, 01:53
Didn't work out for them, oh well.
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#3
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Posted 2013-August-12, 02:50
Why not? 8 tricks are cold. A reasonable downgrade imo.
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#4
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Posted 2013-August-12, 03:14
click on the next button and see what happened at our table.
#5
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Posted 2013-August-12, 04:09
the hog, on 2013-August-12, 02:50, said:
Why not? 8 tricks are cold. A reasonable downgrade imo.
It wrongsides it badly, better guess well at trick 1.
#6
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Posted 2013-August-12, 07:08
Swap a few NS cards so that north's normal lead is a diamond. Now EW do well. I don't think we can conclude much about the choice to downgrade based on the result.
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#7
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Posted 2013-August-12, 07:45
Come on billw it's a thread for fun....
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#8
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Posted 2013-August-12, 07:48
Fluffy, on 2013-August-12, 03:14, said:
click on the next button and see what happened at our table.
Did West claim the last three tricks?
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#9
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Posted 2013-August-12, 08:23
gwnn, on 2013-August-12, 07:45, said:
Come on billw it's a thread for fun....
My joke detectors don't get warmed up until later in the morning
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#10
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Posted 2013-August-15, 16:29
With 14.35 Kaplan and Rubens(knr) points, this is obviously weak enough to downgrade. However, it is anti-field, as point-counters will choose the normal strong NT. Some experts will almost never downgrade for this very reason; they expect to gain matchpoints in the play.
#11
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Posted 2013-August-15, 17:09
BillPatch, on 2013-August-15, 16:29, said:
With 14.35 Kaplan and Rubens(knr) points, this is obviously weak enough to downgrade. However, it is anti-field, as point-counters will choose the normal strong NT. Some experts will almost never downgrade for this very reason; they expect to gain matchpoints in the play.
9♠ and 10♦ say don't downgrade, without those I seriously consider it, funny they're irrelevant on this board.
#12
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Posted 2013-August-15, 19:01
I have yet to see a legit NT range being downgraded which led to a happy ending. Maybe there are and not posted but in my own experiences i did not see much if any.
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#13
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Posted 2013-August-15, 19:34
MrAce, on 2013-August-15, 19:01, said:
I have yet to see a legit NT range being downgraded which led to a happy ending. Maybe there are and not posted but in my own experiences i did not see much if any.
Qxx, Qxx, Qxxx AKQ
As besr I remember the biggest x is a six. I forgot to downgrade it and went out the door.
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#14
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Posted 2013-August-15, 23:05
MrAce, on 2013-August-15, 19:01, said:
I have yet to see a legit NT range being downgraded which led to a happy ending. Maybe there are and not posted but in my own experiences i did not see much if any.
LOL, upgraders never downgrade, and Walter the Walrus's of the world wouldn't dream of downgrading if the point count matches a NT range, so I don't imagine you would see any.
#15
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Posted 2013-August-15, 23:25
I wouldn't have downgraded... but I sure hope none of my partners would have done anything foolish as West. 1NT-P-P is the obvious auction... it's after North overcalls that it turns interesting. Will EW defend a red suit or find their way to 3C?
#16
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Posted 2013-August-16, 00:19
ggwhiz, on 2013-August-15, 19:34, said:
Qxx, Qxx, Qxxx AKQ
As besr I remember the biggest x is a six. I forgot to downgrade it and went out the door.
As besr I remember the biggest x is a six. I forgot to downgrade it and went out the door.
At 12.45 knr points, Kaplan would say that that hand was borderline enough that it was not worth one of his vulnerable "weak NT openers." minimum 12.5 knr points in Kaplan's estimation in first and second seat.
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Posted 2013-August-16, 00:34
Siegmund, on 2013-August-15, 23:25, said:
.. . . 1NT-P-P is the obvious auction....
While I agree that a balanced 8 hcp does not equal a raise of a 15-17 hcp strong NT. West's hand is better than a normal 8hcp. It has a 5 card suit headed by 2 honors and a nine, plus 1 and 1/2 quick tricks for entries. The field auction was 1NT (p) 2NT ppp.
edit: the knr rating for west's hand is 7.20. The field (and I) also failed to downgrade this hand, too.
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Posted 2013-August-16, 03:36
MrAce, on 2013-August-15, 19:01, said:
I have yet to see a legit NT range being downgraded which led to a happy ending. Maybe there are and not posted but in my own experiences i did not see much if any.
I did something I almost never do last time I played and passed a 3334 12 count in 3rd vul rather than open 1N, was worth 5 IMPs, 1N-2 at the other table, partner has 7, opps 10/11.
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Posted 2013-August-16, 03:40
MrAce, on 2013-August-15, 19:01, said:
I have yet to see a legit NT range being downgraded which led to a happy ending. Maybe there are and not posted but in my own experiences i did not see much if any.
Probably a fair statement, when most players below world-class have such a poor capability of hand evaluation.
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