[TWO4BRIDGE]

( 1D ) - p - ( p ) - 1H
( 1S ) - ??

Your hand:
x x
Q 8 7 x
A 9
10 x x x x

What do you define 2H/3H as ??

[P_Marlowe]

2H.

One reason is, that partner just reopened the bidding, the other,
openers partner is broke, why should I try to preempt him.

They may have a spade fit, but 3H wont stop them from finding the
fit, I am staying low.

I guess adding this all together means, in the given seq. a preemptive
3H bid does not exists for me.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Endymion77]

2♥ of course, who are we preempting if we bid 3♥? Responder, who already passed, opener, who already bid this hand and knows his partner doesn't have much, or partner, who might've been forced to balance with only 4 hearts if he also had some length in diamonds.

[fromageGB]

I think 3♥ means "I meant to pull out the 1♥ card last time, but you bid before I had a chance to correct it".

Edit : I know you can hardly claim "mechanical error" if you passed instead of bid, but you get the idea : impossible, or Alzheimer's.

[wank]

3h clearly. responder must fit diamonds or spades considering we only have 4 cards there. it's obviously ridiculous to think there's no point in pre-empting against a weak hand.

with 3h you make it harder for them to get the right level and you make partner's decision easier.

[Cyberyeti]

wank, on 2014-January-23, 16:45, said:

3h clearly. responder must fit diamonds or spades considering we only have 4 cards there. it's obviously ridiculous to think there's no point in pre-empting against a weak hand.

with 3h you make it harder for them to get the right level and you make partner's decision easier.

I thought I was the only person that believed this, but surely if I have any sort of hand I have plenty of cue bids available so 3♥ ought to be shapely and weak.

[ggwhiz]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-January-23, 16:52, said:

3♥ ought to be shapely and weak.

Fair enough but with a 5th heart and a singleton or void somewhere.

Partners simple balance can be about a king less than an opener. 2♥ for now followed by 3♥ if need be (on the basis of a 9 card fit) is all it's worth and if they bid on I expect to beat them. If they bid on over a direct 3♥ I expect partner to do the wrong thing.

And if partner has a good one I'm leaving room for all our natural game tries.

[Cyberyeti]

ggwhiz, on 2014-January-23, 17:01, said:

Fair enough but with a 5th heart and a singleton or void somewhere.

Partners simple balance can be about a king less than an opener. 2♥ for now followed by 3♥ if need be (on the basis of a 9 card fit) is all it's worth and if they bid on I expect to beat them. If they bid on over a direct 3♥ I expect partner to do the wrong thing.

And if partner has a good one I'm leaving room for all our natural game tries.

I'm slightly influenced by the rest of our system, we tend to make this sort of bid with 5 trumps or 4 and a side 5 card suit.

[Winstonm]

2H should be competetive with 3 or more hearts and 3H should be strongly encouraging - 4-card support but with the wrong shape to act initially. A cue bid would be 3-card support with the same type hand.

[Cyberyeti]

Winstonm, on 2014-January-23, 17:29, said:

2H should be competetive with 3 or more hearts and 3H should be strongly encouraging - 4-card support but with the wrong shape to act initially. A cue bid would be 3-card support with the same type hand.

OK, so 2♦ is 3 card support, but you have 2♠ (and for us 2N) as well which for me are possible decent hand 4 card raises.

[the hog]

I disagree that 2D is 3 card support. I would certainly bid 2D here. I would bid Hs without the DA so some stronger action is called for.

[aguahombre]

Agree with the 3♥ jammers. They have half the HCP at least, and I don't want LHO to have the luxury of a free 3d or 2S.

If LHO bids 3S over my 3H, it will be unclear to opener whether he stretched or would have jumped to 3S over 2H.

After Partner borrowed 3HCP when she balanced, my hand doesn't even come up to a jump cue 3D mixed raise...and it is so far from an invitational cue I can't even imagine doing that.

[MrAce]

3♥

[Winstonm]

I've never seen the advantage in attempting to preempt after so much information has been exchanged. I also don't see the point in 3h as there is no guarantee in my book that reopener holds 5.

[kenberg]

2♥ is enough for me. Among other things, i don't want to do anything to encourage partner to bid 5♥ over 4♠ if he thinks 4♥ is pre-emptive, and I don't want to do anything to encourage him to double 4♠ if he thinks 3♥ is strong. I am only barely willing to bid 2♥. I expect us to be defending this hand.

I will ask a partner or two what they think 3♥ is. I think it's a lot of shape. I don't have it. Not enough, anyway.

[aguahombre]

Winstonm, on 2014-January-24, 14:25, said:

I also don't see the point in 3h as there is no guarantee in my book that reopener holds 5.

O.K., will restrict my choice to when I sit opposite MY partner.

kenberg, on 2014-January-24, 15:05, said:

2♥ is enough for me. Among other things, i don't want to do anything to encourage partner to bid 5♥ over 4♠ if he thinks 4♥ is pre-emptive, and I don't want to do anything to encourage him to double 4♠ if he thinks 3♥ is strong. I am only barely willing to bid 2♥. I expect us to be defending this hand.

I will ask a partner or two what they think 3♥ is. I think it's a lot of shape. I don't have it. Not enough, anyway.

Good idea to discuss all things with partner....like what 2♦, 2♠, and 3d show before even remotely considering she might think 3♥ is strong. If I bid 3♥ with this one, the mere existance of the Diamond Ace would make me content if Pard should Double 4S. As for CHO competing to 5H over 4S, same thing. My 3H bid was quite pure; if she goes for the 5-level, she does.

[kenberg]

I would think that 2♠ would show a sound limit raise in hearts.Something where I expect to make 3♥ and we might well want to hit 3♠ if they go on. I have no good idea what 2♦ would be. And,as I say, I think 3♥ is a lot of shape, more than I have. Probably partner thinks the same but I have been wrong before. A jump raise of a direct overcall is pre-emptive for (almost) anyone and it seems that the same would apply here unless we have spoken of this and explicitly agreed otherwise..

[cherdano]

I am bidding 3♥ not because it's a preempt, but because it's the best description of my hand.
Nevertheless, opponents still don't know the extent to their spade fit, nor does LHO know how strong RHO is, so there is still value in taking away room. They have to figure out both whether to compete to 3♠ and whether to bid game, and can't do both.

[JLOGIC]

cherdano, on 2014-January-25, 04:39, said:

I am bidding 3♥ not because it's a preempt, but because it's the best description of my hand.

Exactly, that is the best answer to Winston re "why preempt when they've exchanged so much info." You describe your hand well in one bid. There is also some benefit of stealing room from them even if that becomes less important when more info is exchanged. What is the downside of making a descriptive bid instead of bidding 2H, we won't be able to play 2H anymore? There is no chance we are going to ever play 2H on this hand anyways, that's a pipe dream.

[madongjun]

I think 2♥ better.