[dickiegera]

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This was our bidding.
West said we should play neg doubles thru 4 Hearts.

Is there another way to bid?

What would 4NT be?

Should not make 6 Spades. Small club to Ace and a ruff on the go.
Makes 6 Clubs.

+300 was not good. Most were making 6 Spades, +680 and +1430.

Comments

[kenberg]

Seems like there are lots of possibilities. Firstly, I think getting to 6♣ in our nine cad fit missing the ace instead of 6♠ in our ten card fit is not going to happen. Anyway, in clubs there might be a spade ruff. Perhaps a stiff spade is led and his partner has the ace of clubs. At any rate, you won't get to 6♣.
Also, 6♠ is not a great slam. Besides the possible club ruff, there is the danger of an opening diamond lead from the South hand. if North has the King of diamonds instead opf the Ace of clubs, you are going down.


But let's say that all in all, you want to reach 6♠. How should it go? I usually play negative doubles through 3♠ so I would have the same problems as here.

Well, we have the "30 point deck" meaning that no one gives a hoot about heart points since we are void and have plenty of trump. But still we only have 21 highs, so it gets tough, so it seems to me. I guess that I think that over 5♥, West might have just bid 6♠. Could be wrong, for the reasons mentioned. I don't see that much could be different.


It's true that some, Steve Robinson for example, strongly recommend opening 1♠ on the East hand. But after 1♠-(4♥) -4♠ I don't see the auction as being any easier.

Maybe you could just ask the Souths at the other table why they didn't lead their stiff club.

[dickiegera]

kenberg, on 2014-January-26, 10:55, said:

Seems like there are lots of possibilities. Firstly, I think getting to 6♣ in our nine cad fit missing the ace instead of 6♠ in our ten card fit is not going to happen. Anyway, in clubs there might be a spade ruff. Perhaps a stiff spade is led and his partner has the ace of clubs. At any rate, you won't get to 6♣.
Also, 6♠ is not a great slam. Besides the possible club ruff, there is the danger of an opening diamond lead from the South hand. if North has the King of diamonds instead opf the Ace of clubs, you are going down.


But let's say that all in all, you want to reach 6♠. How should it go? I usually play negative doubles through 3♠ so I would have the same problems as here.

Well, we have the "30 point deck" meaning that no one gives a hoot about heart points since we are void and have plenty of trump. But still we only have 21 highs, so it gets tough, so it seems to me. I guess that I think that over 5♥, West might have just bid 6♠. Could be wrong, for the reasons mentioned. I don't see that much could be different.


It's true that some, Steve Robinson for example, strongly recommend opening 1♠ on the East hand. But after 1♠-(4♥) -4♠ I don't see the auction as being any easier.

Maybe you could just ask the Souths at the other table why they didn't lead their stiff club.

I guess my question should be is how to bid this after the 4♥ overcall.
I believe that double of 4 hearts should have been penalty. I as opener was prepared to bid 4♠ after opening 1♣.
I cannot understand why every NS isn't bidding up to 6♥
Thank you

[mikeh]

W was lucky that N redoubled. if N passes, as he should over a non-negative double, East has a tough call, since the double was penalty....and it is entirely possible that the double was slow....which makes pulling really dubious....what if west had xx KQJ9x Axxx xx?

West has 2 choices over 4♥: a conservative pass or a very aggressive 4♠. The fact that neither is the least attractive is why most experienced, expert players play negative doubles here.

If West is at all hesitant, beyond the usual looking interested 10 seconds or so, then West should probably choose the overbid rather than the pass, which puts so much pressure on opener.

Personally, my preference is to play negative doubles through at least the entire 5 level, with the understanding that the higher the level, the less the double promises in terms of specific suit lengths and the more it shows 'transferable values'. At the higher levels, it is really an announcement of hand ownership, and opener is expected to pass quite often and to bid only with extra shape... altho this only becomes really so over 4♠ or higher.....opener doesn't need a lot of shape to pull a double of 4♥, for example, to 4♠.

Opening 1♠ is, with all respect to Robinson who is a fine player, something reserved for the lunatic fringe unless one has designed an entire method around distorting shape.

[kenberg]

I agree that a slow double could cause problems but absent that I don't think I would have any doubt about pulling to 4♠. Of course it could be wrong, but if I am holding a 6/5 hand and I so far have shown only that I have 3+ clubs, I pull. And since I am clear in my mind that that is what I would do, I would do it over a slow double as well, but I can imagine that it might be rolled back. it's a somewhat dicey ethical situation but I think I can be dispassionate in these things and if I am truly sure of what I would do w/o the hesitation then i still do it. A committee can rule otherwise and there will be no hard feelings.