[Schultz112]

EW-non vul
NS-vul
(P) - P - (3♦)- 4♠
(5♦) - P - (P) - ?

♠AK7432 ♥AQ ♦T ♣QJ84

[PhantomSac]

I assume pass is forcing and I double, I have no extra offense.

[Cyberyeti]

Saying NS vul doesn't help as you haven't said what seat we are in (or who dealt), nor whether it's pairs/teams.

I don't see that pass is forcing, as we have basically said we're pretty close to making 4♠ (maybe slightly less close NV/V), but often it will be a hand with more spades and less defence than this, partner might want to be allowed to pass 5♦ unsure whether 5♦ is making or not, and also unsure if we're going too many, it's entirely conceivable that particularly V/NV you're forcing partner to make a choice between -550 and -500/800 when you wanted to push cards quietly for -400.

[PhantomSac]

This must be one of very few times that I thought a pass was forcing that someone else didn't. Although I'm having a deja vu, maybe this happened on the forums in exactly this auction before lol.

I actually agree with you that white vs red we should not be in a force, I am not sure why I interpreted OP as we are red and they are white, I guess I just assumed I was south?

My understanding is that almost all experts play a preempt opposite a passed hand jump to game as a force when we showed values in 4th seat, the idea being it is very likely they cannot make 11 tricks with a passed hand opp a preempt, and partners most likely hand is one that wants to invite us to bid at the 5 level with a fit but obviously doesn't want to force there.

However I do play that white vs red we are basically never in a force since the opps are usually bidding to make or go down 1 in those situations and when we know they have no HCP it is very likely they have lots of shape. I don't think most people play that though.

[PhilKing]

Yeah, I'm almost always in the "pass is not forcing" camp, but I play this specific one as forcing.

Double!

[EricK]

Is this really a 4♠ bid though? Should the decision about whether to bid 4♠ depend on whether a pass in this auction would be forcing?

[Zelandakh]

I also have a lot of sympathy with double over 3♦ but now it came back in 5 I am glad I got in the a spade call. The double now seems clear enough to be certain that 5♦ makes.

[whereagles]

Dbl, to show some extras.

[helene_t]

 whereagles, on 2014-September-05, 03:27, said:

Dbl, to showdeny some extras.

FYP

[whereagles]

pls elaborate

[gszes]

I was counting on p having their fair share of stuff to make 4s so unless they
have a special surprise for me I prefer to just x 5d and try to set it. The
nice part about this auction is that since p is a passed hand they can tell
quickly if their hand is good for a 5s raise to make or bad enough to pull
so the opps do not make 5dx:)

[lamford]

The poll should have been "which forum does this belong in". I am sure Expert-Class Bridge would have polled 0 votes. And I have given up forcing passes in the pass-out seat ...