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Your call

Poll: Your call (37 member(s) have cast votes)

Your call

  1. pass (5 votes [13.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.51%

  2. 4D (30 votes [81.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 81.08%

  3. double (2 votes [5.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.41%

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#21 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2016-July-19, 03:50

View Postcherdano, on 2016-July-19, 03:39, said:

Just what sfi said.


I knew I'd eventually find someone that agreed with something I said on this thread. ;)
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#22 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-July-19, 05:35

View Posthelene_t, on 2016-July-19, 01:45, said:

If you don't bid 4d with this hand when will you ever?


Well said.

You should bid 4 when it is not solid and you should not when it is solid.
Sounds pretty nice to ears on forums, isn't it? Because at forums partner knows that your DBL is asking stopper, not a take out when it is convenient. And knows it is take out when it is also convenient and accurate.
This auction can proceed in many different ways and starting DBL can lead to a complete disaster. But who cares? After all we found a way to allow pd to bid 3 NT when he has a stopper and he does not have better responses than just bidding 3 NT with a stopper in many hands.

I am not even mentioning the unlikelihood of finding pd with a stopper when they open 3 at these colors. Hell...I will not even mention the likelihood of a lead when pd actually have good stoppers, or the small possibility that are not as solid as we think they are. Oh and I thought OP mentioned the MP and game bonuses do not pay as much as imps.

Oh! Did I mention the possibility of dbl being converted due to the colors? I have defended with worse hands than this, I admit! But that does not make me hopeful if we end up defending.

I BBF!

View Postsfi, on 2016-July-16, 09:53, said:

It seems like the frequency of a succesful 3NT bid from partner, along with the chances of getting to spades when it is right, outweigh the frequency of missing diamonds when that's the right spot.



This is a very good example of how can 2 people look at same hand and colors and same auction but think totally the opposite. Of course we all guess that is the case since it is asked in forums. That pd has a stopper and starting DBL will be fine for this hand in forums. In real life, it's another story.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#23 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2016-July-19, 06:02

For me 4>X>pass>3nt.
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#24 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2016-July-23, 04:12




This went 2 off when 3NT by either is a comfortable make. C'est la vie
May 2003: Mission accomplished
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Soon: Mission illegal
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#25 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-July-23, 05:06

View PostWackojack, on 2016-July-23, 04:12, said:


This went 2 off when 3NT by either is a comfortable make. C'est la vie


Quote

This is a very good example of how can 2 people look at same hand and colors and same auction but think totally the opposite. Of course we all guess that is the case since it is asked in forums. That pd has astopper and starting DBL will be fine for this hand in forums. In real life, it's another story.


C'est la vie Posted Image
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#26 User is offline   Wackojack 

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Posted 2016-July-23, 05:16

I might add that this was "real life" and it was me that bid 4. "C'est la vie"
May 2003: Mission accomplished
Oct 2006: Mission impossible
Soon: Mission illegal
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#27 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-July-23, 05:26

View PostWackojack, on 2016-July-23, 05:16, said:

I might add that this was "real life" and it was me that bid 4. "C'est la vie"


So you prove my point. In real life people do not DBL with this. Posted Image
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#28 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2016-July-23, 07:03

View PostMrAce, on 2016-July-23, 05:26, said:

So you prove my point. In real life people do not DBL with this. Posted Image


Meh. I'm still comfortable with my choice.
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#29 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2016-July-23, 07:18

View Postsfi, on 2016-July-23, 07:03, said:

Meh. I'm still comfortable with my choice.


I do not even think DBL is an option. But I will poll it to see how many good players actually DBL with this.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#30 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2016-July-23, 11:57

View PostMrAce, on 2016-July-19, 05:35, said:

Well said.

You should bid 4 when it is not solid and you should not when it is solid.
Sounds pretty nice to ears on forums, isn't it? Because at forums partner knows that your DBL is asking stopper, not a take out when it is convenient. And knows it is take out when it is also convenient and accurate.
This auction can proceed in many different ways and starting DBL can lead to a complete disaster. But who cares? After all we found a way to allow pd to bid 3 NT when he has a stopper and he does not have better responses than just bidding 3 NT with a stopper in many hands.

I am not even mentioning the unlikelihood of finding pd with a stopper when they open 3 at these colors. Hell...I will not even mention the likelihood of a lead when pd actually have good stoppers, or the small possibility that are not as solid as we think they are.

Relax.
I don't know what is right on this hand. But this looks like a hand where we often belong in game. And the two most likely games are 3N and 4S - probably in that order. To make 3N, we need a stopper and a trick from partner. To make 5D we need partner to cover 4 of our 6 losers. I know which one I think is more likely.

And as you point out, this is MP. If we belong in a part score, are you sure it is 4D, not 3S?

Obviously, 4D is the most disaster proof bid. If they have us outgunned, 4D will probably be down less than whatever they are making in hearts. But it puts a lot of eggs in one basket.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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