[Tramticket]

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Pairs.
System: 4-card majors (open major if 4-4 in Maj/min) / weak NT.

(1) Do you agree with the 1♠ response?
(2) How do you continue now? (if it matters, 2♥ would be 4th suit forcing to game).

[StevenG]

2♦

[silvr bull]

If opener was my partner, he could have void Kxxx AKJxx QTxx and I must bid Hs. The good news is that my partner and I would not agree to "4th suit forcing to game". Our new suit by an unpassed responder is forcing, of course, but only for one more round of bids. There are hands (like this one) where I need to bid both of my suits, and my suit bids are natural suits even if one of them may be the 4th suit. I bid 2H (one round force) now, and plan to bid 3H (not forcing) over opener's next bid.

[MrAce]

 silvr bull, on 2017-May-17, 06:41, said:

If opener was my partner, he could have void Kxxx AKJxx QTxx and I must bid Hs. The good news is that my partner and I would not agree to "4th suit forcing to game". Our new suit by an unpassed responder is forcing, of course, but only for one more round of bids. There are hands (like this one) where I need to bid both of my suits, and my suit bids are natural suits even if one of them may be the 4th suit. I bid 2H (one round force) now, and plan to bid 3H (not forcing) over opener's next bid.

• Just because pd can hold 4 card ♥ does not justify the 2♥ bid even if it is only F1. Your chances to find 4 card ♥ is low. It is very likely to be a big misfit hand
• It is MP so game bonus is not that of a big deal.
• You are assuming that the possibility of finding pd with hearts worth ending up playing 3M with hands like

x xx Axxxx AKJxx
x Kx Axxxxx KQxx
x x Axxxxx AKxxx

• Pd will jump to 3 NT (or will bid 3 NT later over your 3♥) with many hands around 14-18 hcp and total misfit. Such as K Qx KJxxx AQJxx
• You said you will bid 3♥ over opener's next bid. You are already riding a wild horse by bidding 2♥, at least stop whipping if pd bids 3♦ and pass.

[ggwhiz]

It's ugly in my partnership since 2♥ is an artificial game force for us as well.

1. 2♦ - Partner will pattern out with 2♥ on something like a 1-3-5-4 shape as long as they have top of their range (really chunky 14+) and a good partner will strain to bid 2♠ and have a 3-1-5-4

2. 2♠ - most likely to end the auction but could make while losing 3 or 4 trump tricks.

Door #1 gives the best chance to stumble into a making game at imps and should be playable for a plus if passed.

Door #2 has a mild chance to be your best mp partscore plus and an attractive mini gamble

Not a comfortable guess either way.

[silvr bull]

 MrAce, on 2017-May-17, 07:35, said:

• Just because pd can hold 4 card ♥ does not justify the 2♥ bid even if it is only F1. Your chances to find 4 card ♥ is low. It is very likely to be a big misfit hand
• It is MP so game bonus is not that of a big deal.
• You are assuming that the possibility of finding pd with hearts worth ending up playing 3M with hands like

x xx Axxxx AKJxx
x Kx Axxxxx KQxx
x x Axxxxx AKxxx

• Pd will jump to 3 NT (or will bid 3 NT later over your 3♥) with many hands around 14-18 hcp and total misfit. Such as K Qx KJxxx AQJxx
• You said you will bid 3♥ over opener's next bid. You are already riding a wild horse by bidding 2♥, at least stop whipping if pd bids 3♦ and pass.

You certainly an Ace (Is that the way they spell it where you are?) at negative comments, and pointed criticism, and assuming what my assumptions are. I actually assume that my partners would recognize the potential for a bad misfit, and they would not consider 3NT with any of your example hands. I also assume that partner could have a 3=1=5=4 that would play well in S. After proving your ability to criticize and make negative comments, do you have any positive or helpful ideas to offer? If you were dealt the West hand, would you bid anything, or does an Ace just avoid problem situations?

[MrAce]

 silvr bull, on 2017-May-17, 10:04, said:

I actually assume that my partners would recognize the potential for a bad misfit, and they would not consider 3NT with any of your example hands.

Read carefully before you reply. I gave only one hand that pd will bid 3 NT and it has 16 hcp. Don't conveniently skip the important details as if I suggested pd will bid 3 NT with first 3 hands.

 silvr bull, on 2017-May-17, 10:04, said:

I also assume that partner could have a 3=1=5=4 that would play well in S.

No, pd would raise spades immediately with 3154 hands and 11-14(15) hcp and he will bid 2♣ and then spades with (15) 16-17 hcp. And pd bidding 2♠ over 2♥ does not mean he has 3 card spades. Kx xx AJxxx KQxx for example, in order to right side the NT.

 silvr bull, on 2017-May-17, 10:04, said:

After proving your ability to criticize and make negative comments, do you have any positive or helpful ideas to offer?

Negative comments? You wrote what you bid and why and I disagreed with your comment. (I did not even criticize your system of playing 2♥ as F1 and accepted it as if it is a popular style when it is not) I provided my reasons for disagreeing with your comments. Since when disagreeing and providing reasons without saying anything negative about your personality or anything insulting has become "negative comments"? It seems like you are playing this "You are offensive" card each time someone disagrees with you and you can not find anything better to say.
It is particularly ironic that this is coming in same topic from someone who just wrote "Ace of negative comments" "do you have any helpful comments?" which are directed at me, my forum name and my intentions about why I write them.

 silvr bull, on 2017-May-17, 10:04, said:

If you were dealt the West hand, would you bid anything, or does an Ace just avoid problem situations?

I would bid 2♦ or 2♠. I thought it was clear from my comments and my giving +1 to the reply by StevenG.

[nige1]

 Tramticket, on 2017-May-17, 05:15, said:

Pairs.
System: 4-card majors (open major if 4-4 in Maj/min) / weak NT.
(1) Do you agree with the 1♠ response?
(2) How do you continue now? (if it matters, 2♥ would be 4th suit forcing to game).

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There seems no alternative to the 1♠ reply to 1♦
Over 2♣ I rank

• 2♦ = NAT. Preference. Might not end the auction.
• 2♠ = NAT. Partner will expect a better suit.
• 2♥ = ART. 4SF. An Ace mustang. Hold on tight

[gwnn]

2♠

[steve2005]

I don't know why people are giving up a major suit fit. opener can still have 3 hearts or 2/3 spades.
Your not strong enough for 4th suit if GF and wrong shape if F1.
You should jump to 3♥ INV and gives decent description of distribution.

"(1) Do you agree with the 1♠ response?"
What else to bid? Unless you have a convention that shows this hand is only possible bid.

[rmnka447]

If ♠ were better, I might bid 2 ♠ at matchpoints. But the suit is abysmal, so 2 ♦ is my bid.

Your ♦ are useful in filling in gaps in partner's suit and might provide a ♣ ruff or two.

Additionally, 2 ♦ means partner can still bid 2 ♥ with a 0-4-5-4 hand.

[MrAce]

 rmnka447, on 2017-May-18, 02:19, said:

Additionally, 2 ♦ means partner can still bid 2 ♥ with a 0-4-5-4 hand.

Not really.
He will pass with min hands. If he had more he would not start 2♣ but 2♥ probably.
If pd bids 2♥ over 2♦ it shows 1345 or 0346 15-17 kinda hand.
This is why I like 2♦ more than 2♠ besides the quality of spades. Because pd will probably bail out over 2♠ with 1345 0346 hands unless he has 17-18.

[xbabarx]

1) 1♠
2) 2♠

[RD350LC]

 Tramticket, on 2017-May-17, 05:15, said:

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Pairs.
System: 4-card majors (open major if 4-4 in Maj/min) / weak NT.

(1) Do you agree with the 1♠ response?
(2) How do you continue now? (if it matters, 2♥ would be 4th suit forcing to game).

My responses.
1) Yes. With a natural system, what else?
2) At pairs, I likely would bid 2♠. Do you want to play in 2♦ on a possible 4/2 fit, when you would have at least 6 spades in the two hands?

[Winstonm]

I think 2S is a pretty horrible bid but probably the winning bid at matchpoints. At imps I would bid 2D because this allows opener with extra values to continue to show shape.

[ncohen]

I'd be tempted to bid 2S, but can't fault 2D. P is unbalanced or would bid NT. Must have a singleton or void. Could be 5-4-3-1 or 5-5-2-1 or 5-4-4-0 or 6-4 something. If 6-4, a good hand since would otherwise rebid D. So, bidding 2H GF is clearly wrong -- usually a bad misfit. P most likely has 1 or 0 spades. If P happens to have 3 and a good hand, he'll bid again over 2D. 2S rebid wins when P has 2 S or they split 3-3 and the heart losers go away somewhere. It may win when P has extras with 3H. 2S is a bit more encouraging than 2D, and P may bid 3H over 2S with 3 when he couldn't move over 2D.

[jogs]

6-5 come alive, unless partner has shown a possible misfit.

2♦. As others have said, it doesn't necessarily end the auction.

[msjennifer]

I agree with 1Spade bid.
With the given conditions,I shall just correct to 2D.Partner holding something like Qxx,Void,AKJxx,AJxxx" may "continue with 2Spade ,who knows! ( He won't bid an immediate 2S ove 1S, with such a hand as you may have xxxx for your 1S bid).

[mlbridge]

At mp, rebid 2♠ since it will most likely score more than 2♦. If pard bds 2nt or 3♣, then retreat to 3♦

If imps, just bid 2♦

[miamijd]

Given the bidding system presented (and even if you played 5-card majors), I think you must decide between 2S and 2D. Sure, partner could have 1354 with the right cards to make 4H, or even 3-card spade support, but it isn't likely. I prefer 2D; with 17-18, partner will bid again. If he has 16 or fewer, chances are pretty good the hand is a misfit and any plus score will be halfway OK. At least you ought to have 7 decent diamonds between you.

2S is possible at MPs, but it's awfully unilateral. Partner is going to show up with a stiff spade much of the time, which you won't like at all. If the suit were just a little better (say JT87xx, so that a stiff honor gives you a good 7-card suit to work with), I would go for 2S.

2H game force seems like a massive overbid. If you played it as a one-round force, or like I do with some partners (where it's a game force UNLESS I rebid 3H, in which case it's an invite), I think 2H as the start of an invitational sequence is aggressive but reasonable (right at IMPs, a crap shoot at MPs). Partner will get a chance to show 2-card spade support after the 3H bid, so you'll hit all your fits. If you have to play 3NT or 4D, you'll be disappointed, but nothing is perfect.

Cheers,
Mike