[TopSpiker]

I've just started running a small weekly pairs tournament with our club members, and I find that no matter how many boards or rounds we play, I can't ensure that every pair gets to play against all the other pairs. For example, in a 10 round tournament with 6 pairs, it will often happen that two pairs will end up having played against each other for 3 or 4 rounds, and having not played at all against other pairs. Is this caused by the small size of my tournament, or am I missing something?

[Vampyr]

 TopSpiker, on 2020-April-05, 20:25, said:

I've just started running a small weekly pairs tournament with our club members, and I find that no matter how many boards or rounds we play, I can't ensure that every pair gets to play against all the other pairs. For example, in a 10 round tournament with 6 pairs, it will often happen that two pairs will end up having played against each other for 3 or 4 rounds, and having not played at all against other pairs. Is this caused by the small size of my tournament, or am I missing something?

What sort of movement are you using? It seems that you should manage fine with a 5-round Howell.

[gordontd]

 Vampyr, on 2020-April-05, 21:23, said:

What sort of movement are you using? It seems that you should manage fine with a 5-round Howell.

They don't exist in BBO games.

[Vampyr]

 gordontd, on 2020-April-05, 23:52, said:

They don't exist in BBO games.

No Howells at all? That is strange, since you can never have an all-play-all without a Howell. Well, maybe you could but it would probably be very complicated. I am surprised nobody ever wanted one before.

So I guess you have to do print out a Howell movement and manually seat the people accordingly. Or is there a way to customise a movement when setting up the game?

[pescetom]

 Vampyr, on 2020-April-06, 01:44, said:

No Howells at all? That is strange, since you can never have an all-play-all without a Howell. Well, maybe you could but it would probably be very complicated. I am surprised nobody ever wanted one before.

So I guess you have to do print out a Howell movement and manually seat the people accordingly. Or is there a way to customise a movement when setting up the game?

I don't think there's anything similar, just a choice of total boards and boards per turn.

Does anyone know what movement it uses for individual tournaments?

[paulg]

 Vampyr, on 2020-April-06, 01:44, said:

No Howells at all? That is strange, since you can never have an all-play-all without a Howell. Well, maybe you could but it would probably be very complicated. I am surprised nobody ever wanted one before.

So I guess you have to do print out a Howell movement and manually seat the people accordingly. Or is there a way to customise a movement when setting up the game?

A tournament director has no control over the BBO movements and I'm not sure they've published what they are.

The only option is a barometer movement, which is similar to Swiss Pairs, meaning that the top pairs will face each other although, unlike most Swiss Pairs, rematches are permitted.

I've not seen people worry about this for about 20 years on BBO, which is probably why they've never looked to provide additional movements. Technically it does not sound very difficult, unless the code that needs to be changed is 20 years old, but it would require a lot of testing.

With no demand I can understand why BBO have not done anything, but perhaps after the current crisis if their major partners, like the ACBL and EBU, asked for it then they'd probably do it.

[gordontd]

 paulg, on 2020-April-06, 02:22, said:

A tournament director has no control over the BBO movements and I'm not sure they've published what they are.

The only option is a barometer movement, which is similar to Swiss Pairs, meaning that the top pairs will face each other although, unlike most Swiss Pairs, rematches are permitted.

I've not seen people worry about this for about 20 years on BBO, which is probably why they've never looked to provide additional movements. Technically it does not sound very difficult, unless the code that needs to be changed is 20 years old, but it would require a lot of testing.

With no demand I can understand why BBO have not done anything, but perhaps after the current crisis if their major partners, like the ACBL and EBU, asked for it then they'd probably do it.

My preference, when all this is over, would be for them to provide Swiss properly - ie no rematches, and scored across a single section. For Mitchells, since they are listed as single-winner, it would be an improvement for them to have an arrow-switch (or have that as an option).

But right now the important thing is the great job BBO are doing at coping with a many-fold increase in demand, and providing lots of bridge for those who would otherwise have little to do.

[TopSpiker]

 paulg, on 2020-April-06, 02:22, said:

A tournament director has no control over the BBO movements and I'm not sure they've published what they are.

The only option is a barometer movement, which is similar to Swiss Pairs, meaning that the top pairs will face each other although, unlike most Swiss Pairs, rematches are permitted.

I've not seen people worry about this for about 20 years on BBO, which is probably why they've never looked to provide additional movements. Technically it does not sound very difficult, unless the code that needs to be changed is 20 years old, but it would require a lot of testing.

With no demand I can understand why BBO have not done anything, but perhaps after the current crisis if their major partners, like the ACBL and EBU, asked for it then they'd probably do it.

Thanks, Paul. Now that you mention it, I see it makes perfect sense: if you're going to play against 30 or 40 pairs you don't know, you would certainly prefer playing as often as possible with people at approximately your own skill level; it would also be impractical, and pointless, to play against every other pair...

[Uptown3]

If I am running a private pairs tournament and I want everyone to play the same boards do I just need to make sure that I have an even number of pairs? How does it work when there are 7 pairs - 3 1/2 tables?

[Vampyr]

 gordontd, on 2020-April-06, 05:22, said:

My preference, when all this is over, would be for them to provide Swiss properly - ie no rematches, and scored across a single section. For Mitchells, since they are listed as single-winner, it would be an improvement for them to have an arrow-switch (or have that as an option).

BBO has survived for years not allowing arrow-switches, not allowing Howells or multiple teams or proper Swiss and I am not even sure they are set up for Swiss Pairs. When the current crisis is over the demand for online bridge will fall dramatically, just as it has recently spiked. So it would not be worth BBO’s while to improve their service. The players would just be cur back to the ones who don’t care.

Also, the ACBL (as opposed to the entire rest of the world) routinely run one-winner Mitchells with no arrow switch and I doubt that BBO would be concerned about accommodating anyone else. What do you feed a 600-lb gorilla...

But even if there was a permanent increase in BBO players, they are at present the only online game in town (now that they have eliminated potential competition from Funbridge). So they will not have to bother improving the playing experience.

[gordontd]

 Vampyr, on 2020-April-06, 22:53, said:

they are at present the only online game in town (now that they have eliminated potential competition from Funbridge).

This strikes me as a particularly ill-informed comment.

[0 carbon]

 Uptown3, on 2020-April-06, 20:07, said:

If I am running a private pairs tournament and I want everyone to play the same boards do I just need to make sure that I have an even number of pairs? How does it work when there are 7 pairs - 3 1/2 tables?

It doesn't. You need to replace the sitouts with other players.

[0 carbon]

 Vampyr, on 2020-April-06, 22:53, said:

BBO has survived for years not allowing arrow-switches, not allowing Howells or multiple teams or proper Swiss and I am not even sure they are set up for Swiss Pairs.

If you mean switching the card to point NS from EW & back again, this can happen in all tourneys - Mostly you play sometimes EW, sometimes NS.

[Vampyr]

 0 carbon, on 2020-April-26, 02:22, said:

If you mean switching the card to point NS from EW & back again, this can happen in all tourneys - Mostly you play sometimes EW, sometimes NS.

The only tournaments I have played in are EBU tournaments, and there are no arrow -switches, even though they have been requested.

[fromageGB]

 0 carbon, on 2020-April-26, 02:22, said:

If you mean switching the card to point NS from EW & back again, this can happen in all tourneys - Mostly you play sometimes EW, sometimes NS.

Maybe these are "barometer" tournaments?

[jandrew]

 fromageGB, on 2020-April-28, 12:29, said:

Maybe these are "barometer" tournaments?

No. These are "swiss" tournaments.