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The ever confusing cheaper minor bid Is this really a double negative

#1 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2020-August-29, 17:46



As you can see, ignoring the double negative was the correct approach
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#2 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2020-August-29, 18:31

Yeah, GIB's cheaper minor logic is completely broken. It uses it when it has a true double negative, but it also bids it every single time it has a 5 card suit of the same strain. I posted about this myself on the forum over 3 years ago, and it's come up numerous times since.

(Why GIB doesn't raise clubs is even worse.)
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#3 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2020-August-29, 21:46

I don't see any reason 3 shows 25+ points while 2 and 3 show 23+ points. It's not as if you can pass responder's double negative bid and are showing extra values by bidding over it.
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#4 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2020-August-29, 22:20

View Postsmerriman, on 2020-August-29, 18:31, said:

Yeah, GIB's cheaper minor logic is completely broken. It uses it when it has a true double negative, but it also bids it every single time it has a 5 card suit of the same strain. I posted about this myself on the forum over 3 years ago, and it's come up numerous times since.

I believe GIB adds 100 milliseconds to these fake double negatives to let a GIB partner a heads up that it wasn't really a double negative. Unfortunately humans can't detect this UI so they are in the dark. :lol: GIB apparently learned about using pauses to show 2 different types of hands from run of the mill club players.
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#5 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-August-30, 05:29

FWIW, I also really dislike the initial 2 response

I think that 2N is a much better bid
Alderaan delenda est
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#6 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-August-30, 05:31

View Posthrothgar, on 2020-August-30, 05:29, said:

FWIW, I also really dislike the initial 2 response

I think that 2N is a muhc better bid


I don’t think you should get in the 2 bidder’s way. There is a reason that 2NT is known as the “slam killer”.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#7 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-August-30, 05:54

View PostVampyr, on 2020-August-30, 05:31, said:

I don’t think you should get in the 2 bidder’s way. There is a reason that 2NT is known as the “slam killer”.


I have always heard that in the context of 2NT openings
Alderaan delenda est
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#8 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-August-30, 06:04

View PostVampyr, on 2020-August-30, 05:31, said:

I don’t think you should get in the 2 bidder’s way. There is a reason that 2NT is known as the “slam killer”.


2 - 2NT = I don't want to play in this partnership any more
(seen on a CC of Sabine Auken)
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#9 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-August-30, 11:55

View Postpescetom, on 2020-August-30, 06:04, said:

2 - 2NT = I don't want to play in this partnership any more
(seen on a CC of Sabine Auken)


However, if you play Kokish, you can use this bid to show that you want to play in a minor opposite balanced 20-21+. This is the most likely by far of partner’s hand types.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#10 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-August-30, 12:15

View PostVampyr, on 2020-August-30, 11:55, said:

However, if you play Kokish, you can use this bid to show that you want to play in a minor opposite balanced 20-21+. This is the most likely by far of partner’s hand types.

That is actually almost how we play it, minors 5-5. But the basic reasoning was to assign it to something rare and unlikely to lead to NT.
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