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Preempt or something else?

#21 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-May-24, 14:56

View Postcherdano, on 2021-May-24, 14:49, said:

Focus on your cardplay first. Not making 10 tricks after getting an Ekrens opening is impossible to explain - did you think they were psyching?
You should also ask whether 2 promises 44 only or 54/45.

Then, as others have said, focus on your bidding. The only options after 2 are pass and 3N in my view, or maybe X (but I don't see what it would gain). 2N is not an option.

Finally, yes 2 on this hand is normal for many who play Ekrens. Some think, why not, it shows their hand in one bid, and then also bid 2 on QT98 KQJTxx x xx. How that is supposed to work I have no idea but that's not our concern.

Typically I wouldn't open 2 with 6 and suit quality >7 so that would be a pass for me. 45 are fine, but I tend not to open 4 with a mid-range point count
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#22 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2021-May-24, 15:10

View Postpilowsky, on 2021-May-23, 21:23, said:

I bid 2NT which was passed out for 2N+1 and -3
Is there a "rule of table 17" where you can open without points?
Or is this a reasonable preempt?



As long as you are going to overcall 2NT with 22 HCP, there are no rules :lol:
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#23 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-May-24, 17:54

View Postcherdano, on 2021-May-24, 14:49, said:

Focus on your cardplay first. Not making 10 tricks after getting an Ekrens opening is impossible to explain - did you think they were psyching?
You should also ask whether 2 promises 44 only or 54/45.

Then, as others have said, focus on your bidding. The only options after 2 are pass and 3N in my view, or maybe X (but I don't see what it would gain). 2N is not an option.

Finally, yes 2 on this hand is normal for many who play Ekrens. Some think, why not, it shows their hand in one bid, and then also bid 2 on QT98 KQJTxx x xx. How that is supposed to work I have no idea but that's not our concern.


All good points.
Card-play - I'm battling through BridgeMaster, which is helping a lot.
Bidding - I agree with the 'adjectivals' on this one - as someone gently pointed out months ago ", your bidding needs a ton of work" - they were right.
And yes, 2NT is egregiously atrocious and appalling etc. I thought of doubling, which would have led West to bid 3 (another table), and we would still be in the dunny.
3NT may be best in this situation. It was number 3 on my list.

I did think it was a psych when I saw my hand.
It was alerted as "weak could be 5/4".
I had never played with my partner before and was following her card.
I had never heard of 'Ekrens' till now but will be sure to look it up.

Half the people on this site pre-alert "we play Multi's" some of the more adventurous ones used to say they played Myxi two's - (yes, spelled and typically used incorrectly) until it was banned.
Still, it is a Club tournament, so when people say things, they (including me) typically get it wrong, or their bid has a different meaning to their partners understanding.
A few get it consistently right.

In retrospect, I should have just ignored the bid and focussed on my own hand, but given that I was playing with someone that I had never played with before and it's unlikely we would have found the right spot after the 2.

I still think 2 is a disgraceful bid. It doesn't accurately describe the hand and its main benefit because it will prevent opps from finding their best spot.
Maybe that's fair, but if it is, why not just allow 2 multi - "could be strong, could be weak, might have 13 cards, some night be hearts or spades".

Let's put it this way suppose East had posted the hand - would you say (without seeing the other hands) that it was a reasonable bid, within the rules, and you would be enthusiastic to partner someone that played this system?
Alternatively, would you say it is something that I should incorporate into my repertoire?

non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#24 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2021-May-24, 20:49

I think you need to get over your ego. 2 is a bid. It's not against the laws of bridge.

Frankly, with an attitude like that, I expect the sharper players in the club have you pretty well figured out, which makes bids like that even more likely to win.
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#25 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-May-24, 21:43

View PostTylerE, on 2021-May-24, 20:49, said:

I think you need to get over your ego. 2 is a bid. It's not against the laws of bridge.

Frankly, with an attitude like that, I expect the sharper players in the club have you pretty well figured out, which makes bids like that even more likely to win.


Wow, you have completely misunderstood my point.
Most of the players in the Club are better than me.
Something I am completely aware of - and so are they.

Myxomatosis is a system that was invented by a mate, Bob, at my pre-COVID club.
It's a HUM that was outlawed.

My 'attitude' as you rather quaintly put it is not that the bid is outrageous - only that it is uncommon - which is true.
And that I am trying to be less 'dull' as you imply so I can better cope with it.

I'm not the one that needs to get over himself.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#26 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-May-25, 02:28

To answer your questions: I think the 2 bid is legal but not good, I personally do not wish to add it to my (or your) repertoire, and if partner insists on it then I will accept that. I think it is anti-%, but not much worse than that.

Introducing unusual conventions works disproportionately well against weaker players, usually due to confusion. I think your opponents got you good with this Ekren bid. This is annoying but it happens. It helps to have a standard approach to treating unusual conventions by the opponents, not because a lot of conventions can be defended against the same way but because it eliminates this confusion. In your situation I'd play as if they opened a weak 2, so 2NT would be 16-19 for me (15-18 for most, I think) and stronger hands have to start with double or bid 3NT (shutout).
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#27 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-25, 02:47

View Postpilowsky, on 2021-May-24, 17:54, said:


I still think 2 is a disgraceful bid. It doesn't accurately describe the hand and its main benefit because it will prevent opps from finding their best spot.
Maybe that's fair, but if it is, why not just allow 2 multi - "could be strong, could be weak, might have 13 cards, some night be hearts or spades".


It's all about agreements.

First in hand I pick up Jxxx, xxx, xx, Jxxx, looks like a pass to you, green v red I decided to open 2, perfectly in system for us (weak 2 4+ cards, 0-10). This was the first one I picked up since we agreed to play this system 15 years ago. Anyway it generated either 1400 or 1700 but not the way you expect, LHO overcalled 3 on a 14 count with diamonds headed by the KJ9 and partner looking at his 2N opener with AQ108 knew what to do next.

Our 2 is legal (and alertable in EBUland because it can have <5 cards).
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#28 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2021-May-25, 03:56

"Disgraceful". Wow.
Do you also think 3-point shots from 35 feet out are disgraceful? Or goals scored after a scramble on a loose bounce in the penalty box, rather than goals following a beautiful build-up? Do you think it's disgraceful to score a boundary on a one-bounce pull short, rather than a beautiful cover drive with a perfect pose in the follow-through?

If you care about winning gracefully, maybe you should compete in gymnastics or figure skating rather than bridge?
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#29 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2021-May-25, 07:47

View Postpilowsky, on 2021-May-24, 17:54, said:


I still think 2 is a disgraceful bid. It doesn't accurately describe the hand and its main benefit because it will prevent opps from finding their best spot.
Maybe that's fair, but if it is, why not just allow 2 multi - "could be strong, could be weak, might have 13 cards, some night be hearts or spades".



Given that you didn't even know that Ekrens preempts existed before this morning, perhaps you shouldn't be lecturing about their merits or lack there of.

Highly opinionated and ignorant is a bad combination.
Alderaan delenda est
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