[Cyberyeti]

This is a hand I posted elsewhere to see what people thought a bid meant, just looking for opinions on how this works:

---

Double of 2♣ would have shown clubs, this is an undiscussed situation, I was west and thought this had to be strong balanced, but I had no idea if 3♥ was a transfer (and if partner would assume I was strong bal).

I therefore alerted 3♥ as I believe you're supposed to in EBUland and said when asked "Undiscussed, might not be natural" which gave UI to my partner. I bid 3♠ on my 3244.

Since this is an offer to play 3♠ whether I'm accepting the transfer or bidding a suit of my own, I don't believe either meaning is alertable, so I have no UI when partner doesn't alert.

Partner now has 3 bids he can make, he's 3613, so 3N, 4♥, and 4♠ are in the frame. He also knows this is an undiscussed situation.

3N runs the obvious risk that I bid 4♠ on 3, 4♠ could be silly, 4♥ is safe because if I took 3♥ as a transfer he'd be showing a mild slam try 5-5 in the majors by our methods and with that hand he'd have made a 2 suited overcall over 1N.

He chose 3N and having no UI myself I opted to pass as I wasn't sure which major he had. This worked well in practice, but I'm not sure if anything would have happened if the director was called.

My questions are:

1. If the director was called, does he do anything ?
2. Partner basically knows that this is an undiscussed situation, does the UI tell him any more than this ? Can he choose 4♥ from among the alternatives because it makes the situation clear ?

[pescetom]

Are you sure the diagram is correct?

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2022-May-26, 15:46, said:

Are you sure the diagram is correct?

I think so LHO opens 1N (12-14), RHO staymans, LHO shows no major, RHO with his 4342 pile passes this round to me and having not doubled 2♣ because that would have shown better than the A432 or similar I had, I reopened with 2N strong and balanced although undiscussed, partner bid 3♥.

[blackshoe]

East's LHO is South, not North.

[PeterAlan]

As I read it, Cyberyeti is West and his LHO is indeed North; the auction has continued 3♠ by him and 3NT by his partner, East.

[Cyberyeti]

PeterAlan, on 2022-May-27, 11:01, said:

As I read it, Cyberyeti is West and his LHO is indeed North; the auction has continued 3♠ by him and 3NT by his partner, East.

Correct

[blackshoe]

I misread it. :-(

[Gilithin]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-May-26, 04:44, said:

Partner now has 3 bids he can make, he's 3613

What did your partner think 3♥ was at he time of bidding it? Was it meant as a weak takeout, invitational, or as a choice of game? This seems to be relevant as to the possible meanings he could ascribe to your 3♠ call absent the UI, whch makes it clear what is going on. 3NT seems to be a fudge, much like a Double in many other UI positions, giving partner the maximum space to sort out the problem without digging a hole. At first read I can see very little case for bidding it over 4 of a major absent the UI and there is a clear advantage to bidding it after the UI.

[sanst]

Gilithin, on 2022-August-18, 06:16, said:

What did your partner think 3♥ was at he time of bidding it? Was it meant as a weak takeout, invitational, or as a choice of game? This seems to be relevant as to the possible meanings he could ascribe to your 3♠ call absent the UI, whch makes it clear what is going on. 3NT seems to be a fudge, much like a Double in many other UI positions, giving partner the maximum space to sort out the problem without digging a hole. At first read I can see very little case for bidding it over 4 of a major absent the UI and there is a clear advantage to bidding it after the UI.

I don’t see what the importance is of the thoughts behind a bid in a undiscussed situation. W can’t read his partner’s mind and must trust his own wits. You try something and you might end with a plus score but it might as easily end in a disaster.
To satisfy my curiosity: did it work out to EW’s advantage and did NS claim damage? If so, on what grounds?

[Gilithin]

sanst, on 2022-August-22, 02:16, said:

I don’t see what the importance is of the thoughts behind a bid in a undiscussed situation.

It matters if you subsequently have UI that enables you to extricate yourself from the undiscussed situation with a minimum of damage.

[Cyberyeti]

sanst, on 2022-August-22, 02:16, said:

To satisfy my curiosity: did it work out to EW’s advantage and did NS claim damage? If so, on what grounds?

This was answered in the OP

"He chose 3N and having no UI myself I opted to pass as I wasn't sure which major he had. This worked well in practice, but I'm not sure if anything would have happened if the director was called." 3N and 4♥ both make, 4♠ unsurprisingly doesn't, there was no director call.

[sanst]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-August-22, 03:20, said:

This was answered in the OP

"He chose 3N and having no UI myself I opted to pass as I wasn't sure which major he had. This worked well in practice, but I'm not sure if anything would have happened if the director was called." 3N and 4♥ both make, 4♠ unsurprisingly doesn't, there was no director call.

Sorry, missed that.