[AL78]

---

What do you do now?

[pescetom]

 AL78, on 2024-January-18, 15:44, said:

What do you do now?

3♥ gives him space to stop if he's just staking out ground.

[jillybean]

3♥ is too much imo, my diamond suit has a lot of holes.

3♠

[mikeh]

An interesting theoretical question:

We have five ways to raise spades, and each should carry a distinct meaning.

In ascending order, nothing to do with their merits:

2S. We’d bid that with almost any hand worth a 1D overcall that also has 3 spades. This is imo obviously the weakest raise

3S. My view is that this is invitational. Is there another invite? Pesce seems to think so….

3H. My view is that this is at least a very strong invite, but I have difficulty imagining how one could bring oneself to pass if partner bids 3S which makes it, imo, forcing raise. Surely we’d commit to game with AQxx xx AKxxxx x? And invite with Axxx xx AQxxxx x?

4C/H Each would be a splinter so I’ve lumped them as one way to raise. While, imo, splinters don’t in themselves show a slam try, they do show ‘willingness to cooperate’ should partner have a very good hand in context. Imo a huge overbid here

4S. Obviously gf, but in this auction it’s possible we have a shapely near-freak where we don’t want to let them refine their values en route to 4H…we get there first


These are just my thoughts: strangely (considering how much my partnership discusses bidding), I’ve not gone over this with my main (or any) partner.

[jillybean]

Doesn't 3S also prevent them refining their values on the way to 4H

1C (1D) 1H (1S)
2H (3S) ..

what is 4m here, 4D would have to be some sort of slam try, 4C I'm not sure, COG

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

this is more a tactical decision.

At IMPS you bid 4S and be done with the hand.

At MP you are sure, you are making 3S, but it is unclear, if they can make 4H,
and your side 4S.
If you want to cater for 4S, you can invite via 3S. If you dont believe there is a 50%+
chance of making game, you could bid 2S, and try to find out how confident they are in
bidding 4H, you can always bid 3S over 3H.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

 jillybean, on 2024-January-18, 23:23, said:

Doesn't 3S also prevent them refining their values on the way to 4H

1C (1D) 1H (1S)
2H (3S) ..

what is 4m here, 4D would have to be some sort of slam try, 4C I'm not sure, COG

It does, but does it help you, if you know, that they are guessing when they bid 4H?
They are red and you are green, and you need to decide, if you have to sac. against
their game.

[TMorris]

I am giong to bid 4 ♠ over 4 ♥ so I bid it now. Let them make the last guess.

[awm]

Is it clear that 3♥ is a raise? In modern times the simple overcall has quite a strong upper limit and opponents sometimes bid on air; could this just be a try for 3nt of some sort?

[AL78]

Some good discussion. I was torn between 3♠ and 4♠ as I had a feeling there were double fits both ways, chose the former and got very lucky when the opponents guessed wrong:

---

EW failed to cash both of their heart tricks and the diamond layout couldn't have been any better, so that was an unusual way of scoring +630. One EW pair found the cold 4♥, the other three were allowed to play in 3♥.

[Cyberyeti]

Prize for 3N at MPs with that diamond layout.

Would have bid 4♠. Did 1♠ guarantee 5 for you ? It would for us (x with 4).

[AL78]

 Cyberyeti, on 2024-January-19, 06:39, said:

Prize for 3N at MPs with that diamond layout.

Would have bid 4♠. Did 1♠ guarantee 5 for you ? It would for us (x with 4).

I expected five.

[shyams]

My partnership understanding of the 1♠ advance by North would suggest a stronger hand in terms of HCP or playing strength. It also promises 5-card or longer spade suit.

Is my understanding a non-standard or inferior treatment?

[DavidKok]

It shows five, but I would not require a strong hand. Showing the boss suit when you have it is often winning. Plus, with the other three players already bidding, there isn't that much strength left in the pack. If you require substantially stronger hands for this bid they will be far less frequent.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2024-January-18, 20:29, said:

my diamond suit has a lot of holes.

AQTxxx with balanced opener on your right and partner chirping in too has a lot of holes?

Some partnerships will also expect some degree of fit unless Advancer has a huge suit (IIRC Robson & Segal would even play this as a fitbid, although that seems extreme to me).

 shyams, on 2024-January-19, 08:06, said:

My partnership understanding of the 1♠ advance by North would suggest a stronger hand in terms of HCP or playing strength. It also promises 5-card or longer spade suit.

Is my understanding a non-standard or inferior treatment?

I would have expected either better spades or more diamond support, see above.
But I can see davidkok's point too.

[P_Marlowe]

 AL78, on 2024-January-19, 05:41, said:

Some good discussion. I was torn between 3♠ and 4♠ as I had a feeling there were double fits both ways, chose the former and got very lucky when the opponents guessed wrong:

---

EW failed to cash both of their heart tricks and the diamond layout couldn't have been any better, so that was an unusual way of scoring +630. One EW pair found the cold 4♥, the other three were allowed to play in 3♥.

I dont like the 1S overcall, ..., I prefer 2S, followed by Pass (given the colors, quite distant), I would not overcall 1S.
If you regular do it, you are constantly guessing, if you bid 4S to make. Make it a supported king of diamonds, or (even better)
move the king to a different suit, and I am fine with 1S, although I still think 2S is better, given the colors.

[Cyberyeti]

 P_Marlowe, on 2024-January-20, 01:36, said:

I dont like the 1S overcall, ..., I prefer 2S, followed by Pass (given the colors, quite distant), I would not overcall 1S.
If you regular do it, you are constantly guessing, if you bid 4S to make. Make it a supported king of diamonds, or (even better)
move the king to a different suit, and I am fine with 1S, although I still think 2S is better, given the colors.

I'm the exact reverse, 2♠ would be a fit jump

[apollo1201]

 Cyberyeti, on 2024-January-20, 03:47, said:

I'm the exact reverse, 2♠ would be a fit jump

Yeah, when it gets competitive, you just need a decent suit to join the fun asap when it it still low. Either partner has a fit and you can compete or he doesnt but at this level you dont risk much. And partner knows what to lead if their suit is broken. If you hace strength, let s say opening or close by, you X.

It seems the apostrophe bugs that is why I didnt use them although grammatically incorrect!!

[P_Marlowe]

 Cyberyeti, on 2024-January-20, 03:47, said:

I'm the exact reverse, 2♠ would be a fit jump

Sry, yes, i am responding not overcalling, 1S is clear.

[jillybean]

 pescetom, on 2024-January-19, 10:36, said:

AQTxxx with balanced opener on your right and partner chirping in too has a lot of holes?

Look at that, partner has the K!
Partner is bidding spades in a competitive auction, with support I'm looking at playing this in spades. My diamonds may generate 2 tricks, the suit is not solid and partner has limited entries to my hand. Of course partner is in a better position to judge how my diamond call fits with his hand and I trust him to bid accordingly.