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Auction question Matter of agreement or some standard?

#1 User is offline   ajm218 

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Posted 2010-June-21, 16:14

1 2
2 3
4
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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-June-21, 17:27

What is the framework? Std? 2/1? what have the other bids shown? I think in some partnerships 4 would not exist. In some it might even be a splinter with diamond support. Maybe it is a bad opening bid with good 3-card heart support. As stated many times, I believe space-consuming jumps in forcing auctions should be VERY specific.

I prefer 4 to not happen at all without prior discussion.

edit: in ours, we would have 6-3 with good cards in the 2 majors, and a couple worthless doubletons in the minors.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#3 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-June-21, 17:33

6, 3 I guess would be the logical meaning, probably 22 with relatively little in the way of high cards in the minors.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#4 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-June-21, 17:35

gwnn, on Jun 21 2010, 05:33 PM, said:

6, 3 I guess would be the logical meaning, probably 22 with relatively little in the way of high cards in the minors.

my slow editing...I should have waited for your post.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#5 User is offline   Crunch3nt 

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Posted 2010-June-21, 19:29

Playing "standard" as opposed to 2 over 1, I can't think of another meaning for 4H other than as a splinter agreeing diamonds. 2S has 100% denied 3H.
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#6 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2010-June-22, 02:20

Matter of agreement, the meaning of 4H should be fairly precise defined.

In fact, I would nearly always bid 3H, since responder did not limit his hand
up to now.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: And I would definitly not agree, that 4H is a splinter.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-June-22, 03:52

Crunch3nt, on Jun 22 2010, 02:29 AM, said:

Playing "standard" as opposed to 2 over 1, I can't think of another meaning for 4H other than as a splinter agreeing diamonds. 2S has 100% denied 3H.

I don't think so. We could still wan to play in our 6-3 in spades even if we know we have a hearts fit.

I think 6322 with values concentrated in the majors make sense. Wouldn't assume this to be a splinter undiscussed.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#8 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2010-June-22, 07:32

Sorta like a picture jump with 6+S (usually 7 I think) and 3H.
- Andy -

We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
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#9 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2010-June-22, 08:14

I'm assuming the pair was NOT playing 2/1 GF.
Thus, 2H just promised one rebid and that was 3 .
So a 3 support bid now by Opener would not be forcing.
That's my only explanation for the 4H bid.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If the 2H bid WAS a 2/1 GF, then the delayed 4H-jump could be construed as a splinter* for the last bid suit ( ) , but I'd be afraid to use it.
________________________________________________________________
* " An unusual jump, which makes no sense otherwise, guarantees a fit for the last-named suit by Partner and shows a Singleton or a Void in the suit in which the jump is made. "
___________________________________________
The following are standard splinters in partner's original suit:
1 - 1
1 - 4! = splinter for

1 - 1
2 - 4! = splinter for , slamtry.
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
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#10 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-June-22, 08:14

With 7-3, we no longer have a picture, because we must have a control in one of the minors (or 14 cards)
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#11 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2010-June-22, 08:17

Picture/fit/concentrated jump, whatever you want to name it.
- Andy -

We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
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#12 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2010-June-22, 08:25

gwnn, on Jun 21 2010, 07:33 PM, said:

6, 3 I guess would be the logical meaning, probably 22 with relatively little in the way of high cards in the minors.

agree
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#13 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2010-June-22, 09:52

If 2 is non-forcing and 3 guaranties four, splinter is the only thing that makes sense to me.

The hands that warrants concealment of an eight-card-fit, with a non-forcing bid, is so rare; a splinter in diamonds is much more likely to be usefull.

Also consider that 3 -something, 4 is an option too, so it isn't even all the hands.

If opener really wanted to suppres his hearts, he must have a hand that would love to hear 3 on 3.

I am not familiar with 2/1, but if 2 is forcing, picture makes more sense to me, than does splinter. But I don't find it clearcut.
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


Gnasher
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#14 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2010-June-22, 15:57

OK, another point of view : 4 is ace asking agreeing diamonds.

That's actually what it would be for me. 2 does not show 6, it is just a hand not strong enough to bid 3, or a hand too strong for 3 . (3 is about a 15/16 sort of strength.) But with 4 or 5 diamonds and 17+ I am delighted to go slamming.
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#15 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-June-23, 00:25

In my own pet system this would show a 6-3 with picture bid overtones
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#16 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2010-June-23, 07:02

To me this is easy:
2 showed 5+ spades, but Minimum.
After 3 partner shows real heart support (3+) and real Minimum (10-12).

3 had been stronger (13-14).
Kind Regards

Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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#17 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-June-23, 09:18

ONEferBRID, on Jun 22 2010, 03:14 PM, said:

I'm assuming the pair was NOT playing 2/1 GF.
Thus, 2H just promised one rebid and that was 3 .
So a 3 support bid now by Opener would not be forcing.
That's my only explanation for the 4H bid.

Nah, 3 is GF even in Acol.

If 2 is NF then 4 is a little weird but maybe it could be based on a very minimal hand with 6 chunky spades that didn't want to encourage too much by bidding 3 before.

Not sure if 3 would be forcing in SAYC (some sources say 1-2-3 is an exception to the rule a 2/1 promises a rebid, that makes no sense to me but maybe some people play that). But if 2 is forcing but 3 is not then this sequence makes perfect sense as a picture bid with 3-6 majors.

Dunno if we should assume 2/1 in threads like this. But as long as 2 promises a rebid it doesn't really matter here.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#18 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-June-23, 10:23

helene_t, on Jun 23 2010, 10:18 AM, said:

Dunno if we should assume 2/1 in threads like this.

Since this is the A/E forum, I would think so.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#19 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2010-June-23, 10:28

hanp, on Jun 23 2010, 06:23 PM, said:

helene_t, on Jun 23 2010, 10:18 AM, said:

Dunno if we should assume 2/1 in threads like this.

Since this is the A/E forum, I would think so.

???
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


Gnasher
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#20 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-June-23, 10:46

Hehe, got you Ole.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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