[straube]

All white imps

Partner opens 1S (10-15, 5+ cd)and next hand bids 2N (unusual)

You have 653 K976542 876 void

You are playing unusual vs unusual. Do you bid or pass? If you bid, do you bid 3H or 3S?

[mike777]

pass

bidding not over yet.

3h would be about 7-11
3s would be about 7-10

[akhare]

3♠ -- purely competitive playing unusual vs. unusual.

The void and 3 trumps with the outside K are more than enough to compete. IMO, it's much better to get the hand off the chest instead of waiting to see what happens if they bid 4m.

If partner bids 4♠, we rank to make it.

[straube]

I passed at the table. I thought we were clearly out-gunned and I'd be pleased and surprised not to hear a 5m bid from LHO. In fact he did bid game. Sure, if I can bid 3S and have it go all pass that's great, but 3S ought to assist partner in making a 5-level decision. I don't have the hand that partner is expecting. I don't have four trumps. I can see a case for 3S, but I passed for these reasons.

[akhare]

 straube, on 2013-August-12, 12:29, said:

I passed at the table. I thought we were clearly out-gunned and I'd be pleased and surprised not to hear a 5m bid from LHO. In fact he did bid game. Sure, if I can bid 3S and have it go all pass that's great, but 3S ought to assist partner in making a 5-level decision. I don't have the hand that partner is expecting. I don't have four trumps. I can see a case for 3S, but I passed for these reasons.

If 3♠ is supposed to be a suggestion to play in a part score, I don't see how it can also be construed as something that assists partner in making a 5-level decision.

If this hand is changed to Jxx KJxxxxx xxx void to satisfy the bean counters, does it really improve that much and is it still supposed to help partner make a 5-level decision?

[quiddity]

I would try 3♥ and hope that partner can take a joke.

[straube]

 quiddity, on 2013-August-12, 13:51, said:

I would try 3♥ and hope that partner can take a joke.

If this hand has a future, it's most likely in hearts. Here was the full deal...

..........A9873
..........AJT8
..........4
..........A96
KQ..................JT4
Q3..................void
K9532...............AQJT
KJ53................QT8742
..........653
..........K976542
..........876
..........void

As you can see, we can make 5H....and set 5D if we happen on the winning defense.

So here's an article and I don't know the author but it describes unusual vs unusual...
http://www.ask.com/w...ual_vs._unusual

In it is the reminder that often against a 2-suited hand, our trump fit (considering spades at the
moment) may break badly and responder should exercise at least a bit of caution in raising with only
3 small trump.

Say I had bid 3S and next hand bid 5D I'm not sure that we're better placed. Sure, pd could offer 5H along the way, but with A9873 of the likeliest fit, what are we doing at the 5-level?

Of course if I'd bid 3H we have an easy time. I'm just not up to bidding with a 3-ct when the bid shows something like xx AQxxxx Kx xxx.

I don't know whether I should compete in spades or not, but I'm comfortable not having done so. I think that bidding (other than purely preemptive/weak bidding) should for the most part communicate a desire to buy the contract and the requisite values to do so.

[gszes]

 straube, on 2013-August-12, 14:24, said:

If this hand has a future, it's most likely in hearts. Here was the full deal...

..........A9873
..........AJT8
..........4
..........A96
KQ..................JT4
Q3..................void
K9532...............AQJT
KJ53................QT8742
..........653
..........K976542
..........876
..........void

As you can see, we can make 5H....and set 5D if we happen on the winning defense.

So here's an article and I don't know the author but it describes unusual vs unusual...
http://www.ask.com/w...ual_vs._unusual

In it is the reminder that often against a 2-suited hand, our trump fit (considering spades at the
moment) may break badly and responder should exercise at least a bit of caution in raising with only
3 small trump.

Say I had bid 3S and next hand bid 5D I'm not sure that we're better placed. Sure, pd could offer 5H along the way, but with A9873 of the likeliest fit, what are we doing at the 5-level?

Of course if I'd bid 3H we have an easy time. I'm just not up to bidding with a 3-ct when the bid shows something like xx AQxxxx Kx xxx.

I don't know whether I should compete in spades or not, but I'm comfortable not having done so. I think that bidding (other than purely preemptive/weak bidding) should for the most part communicate a desire to buy the contract and the requisite values to do so.

xx Kxxxxxx xx xx this is a 3 count xxx Kxxxxxx xxx void is wayyyy much better than a 3 count
1. you have a spade fit with 2 or even 3 possible club ruffs)
2. your 7 card suit while somewhat anemic could greatly improve where your side plays the contract
if p has a fit.
3. letting p know about your long hearts now allows p to much better evaluate their defensive potential
(opposite a pass p might x say 5d while they probably wont x knowing you have long hearts)
4. if lho happens to x 3h you have a decent fall back position of 3s.

So if 3h shows a hand around 9 with long hearts this is a great time to show it becasue this hand
is easily as good as xx Kxxxxx Kxx Kx if not better offensively.

[straube]

Thanks. I can see 3H more easily than 3S. Anyone else want to weigh in? Aside from partner and me, I think we have one vote for pass and two for 3H so far.

[mike777]

I think it is too much to assume if you bid 3h you will get to play 5h, lets just say you might play there.

[akhare]

I have no quarrel with 3♥ on this hand.

The main point I was trying to make that the hand with shortness needs to act in the situation regardless of the bid that chosen (3♥ or 3♠).

Also, (the limited) opener should be aware of the fact that responder may have been under pressure and shouldn't stretch to take further action.

[akhare]

I have no quarrel with 3♥ on this hand.

The main point I was trying to make that the hand with shortness needs to act in the situation regardless of the bid that chosen (3♥ or 3♠).

Also, (the limited) opener should be aware of the fact that responder may have been under pressure and shouldn't stretch to take further action.

[CSGibson]

3♥. Its the lead I want, and the main feature of the hand, plus I'm happy to have partner correct to 3♠.

[BillHiggin]

 straube, on 2013-August-12, 14:24, said:

So here's an article and I don't know the author but it describes unusual vs unusual...
http://www.ask.com/w...ual_vs._unusual

I am aware of the fact that there are multiple versions of un v un, but that is one I have not previously encountered.

Pretending that anyone cares what my preference over opps bid showing 2 known suits is: I like cue of cheapest of their suits for invite or better of cheapest other, cue of dearest of their suits for invite or better of dearest of other suits, direct bids of other suits is competitive.
At least that is easy to remember (and for me, remembering what the trump suit is can be a major accomplishment)

[straube]

 BillHiggin, on 2013-August-12, 18:33, said:

I am aware of the fact that there are multiple versions of un v un, but that is one I have not previously encountered.

Pretending that anyone cares what my preference over opps bid showing 2 known suits is: I like cue of cheapest of their suits for invite or better of cheapest other, cue of dearest of their suits for invite or better of dearest of other suits, direct bids of other suits is competitive.
At least that is easy to remember (and for me, remembering what the trump suit is can be a major accomplishment)

LOL. Me, too.

[kayin801]

Partner's hand is gonna be more useful to me in hearts than mine is going to be to him in spades, even with that void. Plus, yeah, we can show spades later or let partner bid them.

Only question is whether we wanna show the direct heart bid or the neg X heart bid with UvU. I don't have a problem with either but I don't really wanna defend, and I'm worried partner will think my hand is too strong defensively with 3H.

[straube]

 kayin801, on 2013-August-12, 18:56, said:

Partner's hand is gonna be more useful to me in hearts than mine is going to be to him in spades, even with that void. Plus, yeah, we can show spades later or let partner bid them.

Only question is whether we wanna show the direct heart bid or the neg X heart bid with UvU. I don't have a problem with either but I don't really wanna defend, and I'm worried partner will think my hand is too strong defensively with 3H.

Well we're playing the more traditional X as setting up a force. I think I remember that Justin plays dbl as negative, but how does the rest of his structure work? Btw without the negative double option are you bidding 3H or passing?

[kayin801]

I think in "typical" UvU one bid shows a negative X and the other shows a limit raise in partner's opener. It's up to you to decide which is which, and just depends on the partnership.

If you hold a gun to my head I'm bidding 3H. I admit to wanting to bid 4S over their 4m and also admit it could be very wrong.

[WesleyC]

I'd bid 3H. Isn't this a perfect hand for the convention?

[madongjun]

I would bid 3♠.