[nige1]

Playing Acol with a weak notrump (12-14) and no special agreements

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[Tramticket]

2NT. I seem to have a stop.

[eagles123]

Tramticket, on 2019-April-28, 13:31, said:

2NT. I seem to have a stop.

there's a stop and there's a STOP lol

[cherdano]

Tramticket, on 2019-April-28, 13:31, said:

2NT. I seem to have a stop.

My problem with 2NT is that on many hands we make as many tricks in NT as on defense in 2S. I don't know how often partner can pass a double as I have never played 4cd majors with weak NT. If we should expect him to pull (because we also have to double with a stopperless strong NT?) it might even be right to pass - I would certainly be tempted if they were vulnerable.

[Tramticket]

cherdano, on 2019-April-29, 01:59, said:

My problem with 2NT is that on many hands we make as many tricks in NT as on defense in 2S. I don't know how often partner can pass a double as I have never played 4cd majors with weak NT. If we should expect him to pull (because we also have to double with a stopperless strong NT?) it might even be right to pass - I would certainly be tempted if they were vulnerable.

Our methods - playing 4-card majors / weak NT

In an uncontested auction, a 2NT is a game invite with a balanced 17-18 HCPs and only four hearts - catering to the fact that partner might have raised on a three-card suit.

We would make the same 2NT call after the 2♠ over-call - but promising a stop. Double is primarily used to show this invitational strength hand, but without a stop.

I agree that, at other vulnerabilities, a pass becomes attractive and I would expect partner to often protect with a double.

[gszes]

I am very happy I spent yesterday sharpening my aXe:) x does not prevent p from going to game it merely shares an opinion that 2s x seems like best given the bidding so far.

[FelicityR]

If X isn't for penalties in this specific auction then I haven't a clue what it could show. It all depends what 2H shows: limited raise or constructive raise but with no special agreements then we're unsure. I wouldn't be surprised if East is 5M - 5m and has a place to run and has tried to put a spanner in the bidding on the second round. 4H and 3NT may be on - but I think not. As primarily a rubber bridge player I'll take the money and run on a X.

[nige1]

cherdano, on 2019-April-29, 01:59, said:

My problem with 2NT is that on many hands we make as many tricks in NT as on defense in 2S. I don't know how often partner can pass a double as I have never played 4cd majors with weak NT. If we should expect him to pull (because we also have to double with a stopperless strong NT?) it might even be right to pass - I would certainly be tempted if they were vulnerable.

manudude03 , eagles123 , heart76 , TylerE , cherdano , ArtK78 , gszes , and FelicityR seem to have logic on their side with their vote for double.
I bid 2N, partner raised to 3N, Opponents led and continued ♦s. One down. Zero matchpoints.
4♥ on the Moysian fit is a lucky make and 3N succeeds against any lead other than a ♦.

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[Tramticket]

Ok, I concede. You need to be playing penalty double against this standard of overcall!

[rmnka447]

First question when it's your time to bid -- "Are the opponents in a bad spot?"

Simple answer -- Darn right!!! You're looking at 3 sure ♠ tricks in hand and the ♥ A. You're also very likely to score a 4th ♠ trick and possibly a trick with ♣ K.

If double would be penalty in this position, give it a shot at MP. If not, pass and see if partner can reopen with a double, you're probably in line for a phone number set if partner can. If not, then you've still got a shot at a possible +150 if partner can produce a trick.

[ahydra]

I suspect the other tables didn't have the somewhat dubious 2S interference.

ahydra

[Tramticket]

ahydra, on 2019-April-30, 20:57, said:

I suspect the other tables didn't have the somewhat dubious 2S interference.

You would hope not!

But North/South will arrive in the perfectly normal 3NT in an uncontested auction. Without the interference, I expect that Nige1's auction would be: (auction 1):

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The same zero match points would result.

If they were playing a strong NT, a reasonable auction might be: (auction 2):

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Again, the contract will fail.

So why did Nige1 get a bad result? I suspect that at most tables the auction was: (auction 3):

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As you can see, South declares in auctions 1 and 2 and is unlucky to find West with a perfectly normal diamond lead. In auction 3, North declares and East has no particular reason to lead a diamond (might choose the 4th best spade?). The overcall has contributed little to the poor result - but it might given North south a second chance if a penalty double were availablle. But, as I argued above, there is a perfectly reasonable alternative use for the double in Acol.