[mike777]

luis, on Jul 14 2005, 12:43 PM, said:

MickyB, on Jul 14 2005, 05:33 PM, said:

A 3433 11 count.

Really? I feel better.

Wow, not close to what Lawrence guidelines were I see. But closer to what I was afraid of.

Lawrence says 3H may be around:
XXX=AJX=AX=KQ9XX

[hrothgar]

MickyB, on Jul 14 2005, 08:33 PM, said:

A 3433 11 count.

As I noted earlier, I am skeptical whether such a hand should rebid 3♥...

[luis]

hrothgar, on Jul 14 2005, 05:53 PM, said:

MickyB, on Jul 14 2005, 08:33 PM, said:

A 3433 11 count.

As I noted earlier, I am skeptical whether such a hand should rebid 3♥...

I guess that depends on partnership philosophy which is indeed a form of agreement. Maybe for this player dbl was INV or better with support and 3♥ just competitive, in such a scenario the option of letting them play 3♦ is not very appealing.

[Walddk]

MickyB, on Jul 14 2005, 07:33 PM, said:

A 3433 11 count.

Did he not have any green cards in his bidding box? 3♥ is just plain wrong!

Walddk: Opener could have passed if he is 3433 and weak. If I can't reopen, we haven't missed anything.


Roland

[hrothgar]

luis, on Jul 14 2005, 09:00 PM, said:

hrothgar, on Jul 14 2005, 05:53 PM, said:

MickyB, on Jul 14 2005, 08:33 PM, said:

A 3433 11 count.

As I noted earlier, I am skeptical whether such a hand should rebid 3♥...

I guess that depends on partnership philosophy which is indeed a form of agreement. Maybe for this player dbl was INV or better with support and 3♥ just competitive, in such a scenario the option of letting them play 3♦ is not very appealing.

Assuming that you are playing "Standard", its hard to imagine that opener could have a worse hand than a 3=4=3=3 11 count. Equally significant, advancer could be sitting on a fairly weak hand with 4 hearts.

I'm known as a fairly aggressive bidder. However, I prefer to be aggressive when my bids place some pressure on the opponents. Styles that force a 3H advance on balanced crap seem unsound. They might work at times. I suspect that they will be particularly effective when the opponents haven't been warned about such idiocy and aren't able to take appropriate counter-measures.

For example, some players at MIT could be trusted to balance on virtually every hand. They would NEVER sell out to a 2H contract. Strangely enough, they started changing their style after the competitors grew wise and started psyching non forcing 2H raises with game forcing balanced hands or passing 2H raises with Battleships. This bidding style even had a name "BOTP" - the Binkly Oriented Trap Pass....

In a similar fashion, pairs who understand that the 3H advance could be made on a 4333 11 countg are going to start making "preemptive" 3D raises on some pretty strong hands.

[whereagles]

luis, on Jul 14 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

MickyB, on Jul 14 2005, 05:33 PM, said:

A 3433 11 count.

Really? I feel better.

Trouble is 4H makes:

J8xx......ATx
KTxxx...Axxx
K..........xxx
ATx.......K9x

Hearts and spades break

[inquiry]

whereagles, on Jul 14 2005, 02:44 PM, said:

luis, on Jul 14 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

MickyB, on Jul 14 2005, 05:33 PM, said:

A 3433 11 count.

Really? I feel better.

Trouble is 4H makes:

J8xx......ATx
KTxxx...Axxx
K..........xxx
ATx.......K9x

Hearts and spades break

Problem was, hearts were 4-1 and 4♥ is off one. I have to admit that I was the 3♥ bidder. We were not vul, we can make 3♥, they can make 3♦. I agree with luis to double with value and bid 3♥ as values. Of course, playing with Matt and we had no specific competitive agreements. I just winged it As usual, I tend to agree wtih Luis, seems he bids "right" at least by way of thinking.

But then again, if hearts had broken... 3♥ would not have been a happy result.

[Walddk]

inquiry, on Jul 14 2005, 08:50 PM, said:

We were not vul, we can make 3♥, they can make 3♦.

Don't you think we will get to 3♥ if you pass? Responder will re-open with double, and then you can bid 3♥. Double does not show a good heart raise as I play it, a free 3♥ does.

Double shows spades, and extras.

Roland

[whereagles]

Ahhh... the cuplrit ben confesses his hideous crime

"Your honor, the prossecution asks for a split score: the defendant shalt be awarded 4H -1, and his innocent pard 3H just made."

[helene_t]

I think the most common treatment is that opener's 3♥ does not promise extras. But maybe this is different in different cultures. Since if 3♥ does not promise extra's I would have expected more panelist voting for "pass". Maybe a topic for a poll?

[Elianna]

Contestant's votes:
4♥ 23

4♣ 3

pass 2

3♠ 1

[Double !]

inquiry, on Jul 14 2005, 01:50 PM, said:

Problem was, hearts were 4-1 and 4♥ is off one. I have to admit that I was the 3♥ bidder. We were not vul, we can make 3♥, they can make 3♦.

Well, if the hearts were 4-1, then there were 14 hearts dealt on this hand. Throw the hand out. How can anyone have a chance when one of the opps has an extra trump up his/her sleeve?

[Echognome]

I didn't mind Ben's bid and can see the philosophy behind it. Unfortunately I wasn't on the same page. No big deal. Will just have to play more with him to learn what his style is; well, if he puts up with me long enough that is.

[beatrix45]

4♥ WTP. Slam seems out of reach, and my hand is worth 11 points for hearts. Partner may have stretched with 3♥ (either in overall strength or with three card support), but so what? I got both covered. If it goes down, well I have been down before once or twice.