[ewj]

Scoring: IMP

---

You deal and open 1♦ which shows 4, LHO overcalls 2♣ and partner bids 2♦, your go...

[Hanoi5]

3♣

[Free]

3♣ WTP

[655321]

2NT

Doesn't overstate my values, lets partner out in 3♦ if he likes. Overstates my club stopper a touch - if we end up in 3NT going down when LHO has AKTxxx and leads them from the top, next board!

[hrothgar]

What would a 1NT opening have shown?
(Personally, I think that this looks like a 15-17 HCP 1NT)

[ewj]

Not a huge fan of downgrading 18 counts with 5 card suits tbf

[mcphee]

We are not always able to be completely accurate with our bidding. I feel 2N should imply a C stop which I almost have. The problem with 3C is will partner look at 10xx in C and say 3N I have a C stop? Being the nice partner I am I bid NT now and take whatever blame there may be. After all we do not want partner to say "sorry" when they have 10 3rd for missing 3N.

I would have down graded this hand and opened 1N 5 card suit and all, this is not a nice hand.

[hrothgar]

ewj, on Dec 21 2009, 04:34 PM, said:

Not a huge fan of downgrading 18 counts with 5 card suits tbf

I don't expect the decision to downgrade to be popular. For whatever reason, folks always seem to be looking for opportunities to upgrade, but never to downgrade.

This hand has three HCPs wasted in the form of QJ tight.

A lot of the offensive strength is in the form of the AKQ tight in spades. This will definitely take three tricks, but seems unlikely to establish anything in partner's hands.

The Jxx in Hearts isn't encouraging either.

Don't get me wrong. I very much like the AJ fifth in Diamonds, epsecially when partner had shown a fit. However, I think that the negatives with this hand FAR outweigh the positives.

[OleBerg]

2♠ Wtp?

[Phil]

hrothgar, on Dec 21 2009, 08:59 AM, said:

ewj, on Dec 21 2009, 04:34 PM, said:

Not a huge fan of downgrading 18 counts with 5 card suits tbf

I don't expect the decision to downgrade to be popular. For whatever reason, folks always seem to be looking for opportunities to upgrade, but never to downgrade.

This hand has three HCPs wasted in the form of QJ tight.

A lot of the offensive strength is in the form of the AKQ tight in spades. This will definitely take three tricks, but seems unlikely to establish anything in partner's hands.

The Jxx in Hearts isn't encouraging either.

Don't get me wrong. I very much like the AJ fifth in Diamonds, epsecially when partner had shown a fit. However, I think that the negatives with this hand FAR outweigh the positives.

Agree with Richard. AJxxx doesn't compensate for the QJ / Jxx negatives. Even AKQ tight isn't appealing.

[gwnn]

downgrading into is better than out of 1NT, but I don't like it on this hand. For one, we can get in our suit now.

I hate tp. I will have to bid 2NT but I'm not happy about it. But 3♣ will not do anything, do we really expect partner to stop clubs? He will bid 3♦ 98% of the time and then we will be sad.

Pass has some appeal but I'm not mature enough for it yet.

[andy_h]

No qualms about 2NT at all. LHO doesn't always have to have AKT-6 for a w/r overcall. And I disagree about downgrading our hand. I don't see QJ as a huge negative for all we know they could be great filler cards.

[aguahombre]

Yep, looks like 1NT. But now that you sat in the seat of the 1D opener, will you take advantage of the opening bid mistake to even further downgrade and pass based on what followed?

[gnasher]

3♣ will probably work if partner bids 3NT over it, because my club holding will go back up in value. If he doesn't, however, he might carry us too high, thinking that a 10-count with no club wastage is a good hand.

2NT works most (all?) of the time that 3♣ does, and also if LHO underleads ♣AK and the diamonds are running. However, LHO didn't overcall 3♣, so he is quite likely to have a side card. If that is ♥A or ♦K, he ought to lead clubs from the top, and 3NT will go quite a lot down.

Another downside of 2NT is that partner will pass it when he has a poor hand with only three diamonds, which again may cost a bit at the vulnerability.

This hand has become really bad. It's not just the club holding: it's also the fact that partner is unlikely to have much length in the majors, so my major-suit holdings aren't pulling their weight either. It's a bit committal, but I pass.

[Fluffy]

I pass for sure, what game can we make?

do we expect partner's 2♦ to have ♥ stopped, ♣ stopped and diamonds running?, how is that possible?

[gwnn]

xxx Qx Kxxxx Txx

he won't accept the invite but you can't say it's impossible

[hrothgar]

The 1♦ opening promised four pieces.
This looks like a raise to 3♦

[nigel_k]

I tend to agree with Hrothgar that opening 1NT is better though it is close. At different scoring or vulnerability it would be different though my preference with limited bids like a 1NT opening is that responder may stretch for vulnerable games but the 1NT opener just bids his hand normally. So 1NT is fine in that case because it isn't worth more than an average 17.

The actual problem is a tough one. My first thought was I would like to pass, but partner doesn't have many options over 2♣ and might have bid 2♦ on a decent hand and/or with a five card major so pass is not an option and I was leaning towards 2NT.

But when I started to construct hands, there aren't that many where game makes. Gwnn's example where partner has ♣10 and ♥Q and the diamonds run is one of them. There are some hands where we might make four of a major as well, eg Jxxxx Kx Kxxx xx but probably there a larger number where we'll go down in four of a major if we keep bidding.

It's optimistic to hope that LHO will underlead AK when he likely has another entry somewhere. I now think pass is the best percentage action but don't know if I could bring myself to do it at the table.

[mikeh]

I would never downgrade....sure, it is a horrible 18 count, but it is still 18....with a 5 card suit....until LHO bids....now it's 15.

The problem with downgrading is that partner may hold a big hand, and will refuse to consider slam with, say, a decent 14 count because you 'can't' have the fillers he needs.

Having said that I see this as an easy pass at this juncture.

If I were to bid, it would be 2N......no way am I bidding 3♣. QJ tight will often be a stopper because LHO will often lead low...but the bidding suggests that he will choose a high one if he holds AK, as he rates to do....he rates to hold an entry.

I would expect that bidding will generate 2 to 3 times as many minus scores as it leads to making (and biddable) games....altho on many hands it will lead to the same +110 or +130 as would passing.

Edit: I have gone back into the thread and see that Andy wrote a better version of my answer before I got here I couldn't (and didn't) have said it better than that.

[MFA]

2NT.
I think pass is a big position here that I would never take. We are vul at imps, no way I can pass. Being vul vs not also means that partner could have passed some completely hopeless hands instead of trying a subminimum 2♦.

2NT>3♣, because I really want to maximize my chance of getting to 3NT when it's right. It may cost when they run clubs against me in 2NT or 3NT but I'm willing to risk that. Also my hand is only invitational, perhaps 3♣ will induce partner to overbid. But 3♣ is ok also.
2NT>2♠ because I want 2♠ to show four when partner easily could have a four-card major. If I bid 2♠ with 3 I need a follow-up plan if I get raised.

Originally downgrading this to a 15-17 1NT opening is borderline LOL in my opinion.