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Enough for 2/1?

#1 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 18:46

IMPs favourable
In 4th seat, you hold: ♠Q84 ♥A ♦A96542 ♣J83

a. Partner opens 1♥. Would you respond 2♦, 1NT or somethng else with this hand?

b. If the bidding went: 1♥ - 2♦; 3♦ - ???. What now?
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 18:55

No, I would bid NT.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 19:01

This is routine. 2/1=GF; I don't have a GF. Therefore, no 2/1.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#4 User is offline   shevek 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 19:47

If I chose 2♦, then probably gamble 3NT over 3♦. While it's true partner might have a stiff club for -50 with 6♦ cold, the alternative of 3♠ - 4♦ (with ♣Qx or xxx) is likely to send us minus. Not sure.

Anyway, a big issue with 2/1 is the need to make early decisions. 1NT is clear enough with your hand but what about this:

♠53  ♥AQ765   ♦KQ87   ♣74

1♠ - ?

A decent guideline is to bid 2/1 on a hand you would open. This is a 1♥ opening so 2♥ now. That could lead to a silly 3NT but

1♠  1N
2♠/♣  ?

is no fun either.
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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 20:00

shevek, on Sep 3 2010, 07:47 PM, said:

A decent guideline is to bid 2/1 on a hand you would open.

No. There are many hands we would open, which are not suitable for 2/1 game force, because partner would open them also. This is one of them.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#6 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 20:16

This just looks like 1NTF followed by inviting in ♦ to me.
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#7 User is offline   BudH 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 21:10

shyams, on Sep 3 2010, 07:46 PM, said:

IMPs favourable
In 4th seat, you hold:  ♠Q84 ♥A ♦A96542 ♣J83

a. Partner opens 1♥. Would you respond 2♦, 1NT or somethng else with this hand?

b. If the bidding went: 1♥ - 2♦; 3♦ - ???. What now?

I would bid 3♦, invitational. (Yes, I would rather my diamond suit be better, but if the bidding is 1♥-1NT-2♥-3♦ then it would show a hand clearly weaker than this.)
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#8 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-September-03, 21:14

BudH, on Sep 3 2010, 09:10 PM, said:

shyams, on Sep 3 2010, 07:46 PM, said:

IMPs favourable
In 4th seat, you hold:  ♠Q84 ♥A ♦A96542 ♣J83

a. Partner opens 1♥. Would you respond 2♦, 1NT or somethng else with this hand?

b. If the bidding went: 1♥ - 2♦; 3♦ - ???. What now?

I would bid 3♦, invitational. (Yes, I would rather my diamond suit be better, but if the bidding is 1♥-1NT-2♥-3♦ then it would show a hand clearly weaker than this.)

Unless your agreements are exactly the reverse. I never understood the logic of giving the opponents room with a weak hand and preempting partner with invitational + values. Only exception: 1D-3C, because of no forcing notrump.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2010-September-04, 03:27

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#9 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2010-September-04, 00:19

shyams, on Sep 3 2010, 07:46 PM, said:

IMPs favourable
In 4th seat, you hold:  ♠Q84 ♥A ♦A96542 ♣J83

a. Partner opens 1♥. Would you respond 2♦, 1NT or somethng else with this hand?

b. If the bidding went: 1♥ - 2♦; 3♦ - ???. What now?

1) 1nt....



2) 2d=gf....think 14+ or m ore often....
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#10 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 03:05

1. Easy 1NT. It's no a GF, and it's a poor suit. Even when playing "2/1 GF except rebid" or jumps as INV I'd still respond 1NT!

2. 3♠ I guess, hoping partner has enough to bid 3NT or 4♦...
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#11 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 03:21

OK. Here are the two hands:
Scoring: IMP
At the table, partner held the South hand and chose to bid 2♦. I thought it was a poor choice in theory (I'd have bid 1NT) but 11 tricks are cold in a 5♦ contract.

How does one reach 5♦ after a forcing 1NT?
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#12 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 03:42

1H - 1N
2D - 2S
3C - 3S
4D - 5D looks to be one possibility.
(-: Zel :-)
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#13 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 04:01

Since opener has ♥ it's very easy imo:
1♥ - 1NT
2♦ - 2♠!
3♣ - 5♦

2♠ shows a very good ♦ raise, opener just paterns out and shows he has 4♦. That's enough to blast.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
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#14 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 10:05

I'd bid 1NT, I think 3D invitational is disgusting.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#15 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 10:17

Free, on Sep 6 2010, 04:01 AM, said:

Since opener has ♥ it's very easy imo:
1♥ - 1NT
2♦ - 2♠!
3♣ - 5♦

2♠ shows a very good ♦ raise, opener just paterns out and shows he has 4♦. That's enough to blast.

One more try with a jump to 4H over 3C? Opener Might have AKX of clubs instead of KQX. Opener has not limited her hand yet, but you have. Not to worry; hearts are not a possible strain.
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#16 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-September-07, 02:16

aguahombre, on Sep 6 2010, 05:17 PM, said:

Free, on Sep 6 2010, 04:01 AM, said:

Since opener has ♥ it's very easy imo:
1♥ - 1NT
2♦ - 2♠!
3♣ - 5♦

2♠ shows a very good ♦ raise, opener just paterns out and shows he has 4♦.  That's enough to blast.

One more try with a jump to 4H over 3C? Opener Might have AKX of clubs instead of KQX. Opener has not limited her hand yet, but you have. Not to worry; hearts are not a possible strain.

It's the Ace, partner won't like ♥KQ if I jump to 4♥... Better 3♥ perhaps, although this might suggest Hx. What will we do if partner bids 4♥?
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#17 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-September-07, 06:27

I can think of several meanings for the auction

1H - 1NT
2D - 2S
3D - 4H,

but this hand doesn't fit any of them.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#18 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2010-September-10, 04:37

I am not sure about 3♦ (if that's an invite). Suit is weak and all but maybe it leads to good things. I will have to think about it. Anyway 1NT looks normal now.
As partner's rebid is 2♦ the subsequent bidding should be easy assuming you have semi-standard agreement that 2♠ is strong raise (1♥ 1NT 2♦ 2♠ 3♣ - game).
The more problematic would be 1♥ 1NT - 2♥ does everybody agrees that 3♦ isn't weak here ? (I am not 100% sure).
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#19 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-September-10, 05:36

1♥-1N
2♥-3♦

is weak (for me and I think most people).
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#20 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-September-10, 05:41

gwnn, on Sep 10 2010, 12:36 PM, said:

1♥-1N
2♥-3♦

is weak (for me and I think most people).

Yes that's considered weak. After 1♥-1NT-2♥ I'd rebid 2NT. As I said before, the suit is way too crappy to treat it as an invite with a 6 card suit.
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